Jobs

Are jobs a means or an end?

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Both. If we are ever going to get out of this mess we absolutely need economic growth, and jobs are a result of that as well as a cause.
 
Damocles said:
Both. If we are ever going to get out of this mess we absolutely need economic growth, and jobs are a result of that as well as a cause.
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We've had plenty of economic growth. It was just exclusively in the top income brackets and accompanied by a growth in unemployment, poverty, and stagnation for the vast majority of Americans.
 
Shy Guy said:
We've had plenty of economic growth. It was just exclusively in the top income brackets and accompanied by a growth in unemployment, poverty, and stagnation for the vast majority of Americans.
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We haven't. The economy shrank last quarter and growth has been abysmal.
 
The republican stewardship led us into disaster.

The Democratic stewardship lead us out of a near depression while the democratic stewards were pummeled by the republican stewards ripping down everything the Democratic stewardship was attempting to build.


Even the republicans dont believe their ideas will work.

They have even proved that they believe the Democratic ideas will work by opposing them with such fervor to save their own butts
 
At what point do you give up an historically failed idea?

How many times does it have to fail BEFORE you go back to being sane and accept the ideas are failed ideas?
 
evince said:
Austerity does not work.

It never has

It never will
ask Europe
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How about you show us the general spending of European countries over the past decade.

Then show us the failed ideas that you love with regards to how they promise one program/benefit after another until they realize they have to pay for it. Then, when they realize they can't pay for all they promised, they have to make 'cuts'... then idiots on the left blame the cuts for the problem rather than the insane spending and unfunded liabilities that led to them.
 
Superfreak said:
How about you show us the general spending of European countries over the past decade.

Then show us the failed ideas that you love with regards to how they promise one program/benefit after another until they realize they have to pay for it. Then, when they realize they can't pay for all they promised, they have to make 'cuts'... then idiots on the left blame the cuts for the problem rather than the insane spending and unfunded liabilities that led to them.
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That brush you're using there is pretty damn broad. There is a pretty big range across Europe with respect to deficit spending over the past decade. Countries like Spain and Ireland were actually running surpluses for much of the decade before the glocal economic crash. Greece and Italy ran pretty big deficits consistently. The UK, France and Germany ran modest deficits pretty consistently. Then you have your Swedens and Denmarks than ran miodest surpluses. Sweden still does. And then there's Norway, which continues to run huge surpleses.

All of these countries have pretty generous social welfare programs, but not all show the same performance with respect to deficits/surpluses. Given that, I don't know that social welfare beneftis themselves are the problem. Hell, Sweden has tremendously generous social welfare benefits and it's surpluses outstrip its deficits over the past 12 years by a long shot.
 
Dungheap said:
That brush you're using there is pretty damn broad. There is a pretty big range across Europe with respect to deficit spending over the past decade. Countries like Spain and Ireland were actually running surpluses for much of the decade before the glocal economic crash. Greece and Italy ran pretty big deficits consistently. The UK, France and Germany ran modest deficits pretty consistently. Then you have your Swedens and Denmarks than ran miodest surpluses. Sweden still does. And then there's Norway, which continues to run huge surpleses.
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Funny... seriously funny... Desh says 'ask Europe'... yet I am the one using the broad brush.

As for the surpluses... are those like the imaginary surpluses the US supposedly had? Budget surpluses? Or did they have ACTUAL surpluses where they paid down their debt?
 
Superfreak said:
Funny... seriously funny... Desh says 'ask Europe'... yet I am the one using the broad brush.
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Well, given that austerity policies have been implemented across much of Europe, her broad brush was much more accurate than yours.

Also, too, you have a really bad case of she-did-it-first-ism. It's annoying when little kids do it. When grown ass men do it, it's just sad.


Superfreak said:
As for the surpluses... are those like the imaginary surpluses the US supposedly had? Budget surpluses? Or did they have ACTUAL surpluses where they paid down their debt?
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Surpuses.
 
Personally? A means.

Its a springboard, a platform to base oneself upon to reach higher. As an *end* it it indicates you can rise no further of your own accord.
 
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Dungheap said:
Well, given that austerity policies have been implemented across much of Europe, her broad brush was much more accurate than yours.

Also, too, you have a really bad case of she-did-it-first-ism. It's annoying when little kids do it. When grown ass men do it, it's just sad.
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Hilarious. This is a political message board. This has nothing to do with 'she did it first'... she made a comment on the austerity measures in Europe. I asked her to provide data on the austerity measures in Europe that she was referring to. Then you come trotting in with a 'gee golly superfreak, you sure use a broad brush using the word Europe'. If you aren't going to add to the discussion, then shut the fuck up.

So you don't know if they had actual surpluses or just those wonderful imaginary budget surpluses?
 
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