Juries should be informed of mandatory minimums

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
Why shouldn't they know? If a sentence is extremely unjust, the jury (the average man) should have the option to nullify it. Congressmen sitting in their chairs (and our "armchair general" conservatives) can easily be apathetic and pretend like their laws never result in injustice, but in the drug war, they do 90% of the time.
 
Why, a jury is just to determine guilt or innocence.

I described why and apparently you didn't read it.

What have I done? I have said that we should expand the role of juries to nullification in certain instances.

A jury is there to determine guilt or innocence. Why can't it do anything else US? Give me a reason, not a slogan.
 
I described why and apparently you didn't read it.


Ohh I read it, but your opinion does not change the function of a jury.

And considering emotionalism I dont think they should do anything but decide guilt or innocence.
But that is just my opinion.
 
Why, a jury is just to determine guilt or innocence.

juries may nullify and make recommendations

Jury nullification refers to a rendering of a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict"]verdict[/ame] by a trial [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury"]jury[/ame], disagreeing with the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_instruction"]instructions[/ame] by the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge"]judge[/ame] concerning what the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law"]law[/ame] is, or whether such law is applicable to the case, taking into account all of the evidence presented. Although a jury's refusal relates only to the particular case before it, if a pattern of such verdicts develops, it can have the practical effect of disabling the enforcement of that position on what the law is or how it should be applied. Juries are reluctant to render a verdict contrary to law, but a conflict may emerge between what judges and the public from whom juries are drawn hold the law to be, or the legitimacy of a law itself. A succession of such verdicts may signal an unwillingness by the public to accept the law given them and may render it a "dead-letter" or bring about its repeal. The jury system was established because it was felt that a panel of citizens, drawn at random from the community, and serving for too short a time to be corrupted, would be more likely to render a just verdict, through judging both the accused and the law, than officials who may be unduly influenced to follow merely the established law. Jury nullification is a reminder that the right to trial by one's peers affords the public an opportunity to take a dissenting view about the justness of a statute or official practices.
Notwithstanding perceived righteous applications of jury nullification, it bears noting that this verdict anomaly can also occur simply as a device to absolve a defendant of culpability. Sympathy, bias or prejudice can influence some jurors to wholly disregard evidence and instruction in favor of a sort of "jury forgiveness."


“ I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution. ”
—[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson"]Thomas Jefferson[/ame], 1789 letter to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine"]Thomas Paine[/ame]
Historical examples include American revolutionaries who refused to convict under [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_law"]English law[/ame],[1] juries who refuse to convict due to perceived injustice of a law in general,[2] the perceived injustice of the way the law is applied in particular cases,[3] and cases where the juries have refused to convict due to their own [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudices"]prejudices[/ame] such as the race of one of the parties in the case.[4]
 
Don't convict that 18 year old to life in prison for smoking pot.
hmmmm.

instead of a system of the people by the people and for the people

we have

a system of the majority by the majority and for the majority...unless the supremes step in
 
In any case, if juries were informed of mandatory minimums, the only thing that could happen would be that people would be so revolted at some sentences as to nullify them. It can never be like US's stupid example, which isn't on subject at all, and is possible in any jurisdiction with a jury system no matter how much information was given to the jury. US just wants to WITHHOLD important information from the jury.
 
Why, a jury is just to determine guilt or innocence.

It's not. That's a lie you have been fed.

http://www.tomasdaly.com/Jury.htm

At the time of the American revolution, the jury was considered the judge of both law and fact. In a case involving the civil forfeiture of private property by the state of Georgia, first Supreme Court Chief Justice John Jay, instructed jurors that the jury has "a right to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy." Georgia vs. Brailsford, 1794:4)
 
instead of a system of the people by the people and for the people

we have

a system of the majority by the majority and for the majority...unless the supremes step in

When we were lucky it was that way. Now it is by the powerful for the powerful.
 
That can be handled in jury selection. Those persons are not rejecting the justness of the law but are rather biased against victim/defendant.

In jury selection, jurists are often dismissed because they don't believe in the law. For instance, a person who doesn't believe in the death penalty in a murder trial, or a pro-legalization person in a drug trial.
 
No state that I know of allows you to mention to the jury in closing that they have the right to nulify the law. But the US has a history of Jury Nullification that begins with the Zenger case and runs through the 19th century when juries regularly acquitted people for harboring run away slaves. I go back and forth on jury nullification because it does treat people accused of the same crime differently just based on what 12 people say which seems contrary to our system of democracy. 12 people should not be able to nullify legislation. BUT sometimes the case is so aggregious that nullification is the only option. Zenger and the fugitive slave cases are easy cases for supporting nullification. I also think that drug laws are made for nullification in pure possession cases. The problem with nullification is what Water pointed out. During the height of lynchings and murders of blacks in the south jury nullification was used to acquit Klansmen of murder.
 
In jury selection, jurists are often dismissed because they don't believe in the law. For instance, a person who doesn't believe in the death penalty in a murder trial, or a pro-legalization person in a drug trial.

Yeah, that should not be the case. Jurors should not be dismissed simply for being opposed to a law, but if they want the law applied unequally based on biases for or against the defendant, yes they should be dismissed.

The example of cases in the south can't be attributed to jury nullification. That's a gross oversimplification. First the juries were stacked to be prejudiced rather than to remove the prejudiced and the prosecution was often hampered in significant ways. The state was not thwarted in seeking justice by jury nullification. They did not desire justice to begin with.
 
juries may nullify and make recommendations

...

Blackstone called it the "pious perjury of the jury". There was a case where a young woman in domestic service in England in the 18th C was indicted for stealing a sold-gold cup from her employer, penalty hanging. The jury found the cup was only gold-plated, less value, therefore no hanging. She was transported. BTW the cup was solid gold, the jury just didn't want her to be hanged.
 
40% of America doesn't believe in the death penalty, which means 40% of America is excluded from sitting on capital juries. The most heartless, right-wing, and vengeful 60% of America decides all murder cases. No wonder we get so many false convictions.

w

i too oppose the death penalty, not because it is immoral but because it is too merciful - life in prison is much worse - also kick the sobs out when they are no longer able to commit whatever crime they committed

and just because they may have been wrongfully convicted
 
Blackstone called it the "pious perjury of the jury". There was a case where a young woman in domestic service in England in the 18th C was indicted for stealing a sold-gold cup from her employer, penalty hanging. The jury found the cup was only gold-plated, less value, therefore no hanging. She was transported. BTW the cup was solid gold, the jury just didn't want her to be hanged.

hi di

your grumpy bastard would describe me too, however, i choose dq because i tilt at windmills - it always scares me a little when anyone agrees with me

while some prefer justice, justice needs to be tinged with mercy
 
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