Just Go in and Sack them if they aren't...
- Thread starter Damocles
- Start date
thank you. So there were two cross cases.
That's what courts are for. To make a determiniation if there is any resonable historical context for the cross, or whether is a promotion of religion by the state.
The UCLA law prof has his opinion. I'm willing to let the courts sort it out on a case by case basis. I don't know all the facts of this case - I'm open minded enough to let a court sort it out. There certainly are cases where relgious things are allowed on public property, when its in the right context.
I'm not an ideologue about this.
The county was unwilling to try. I believe it was because it fit with their own agenda. I also noticed that there was no objection to other symbolism in that same seal for other religions which were also historically consistent...
Once again, I fell for the redirect. The more important part of my statements have nothing to do with this.
It is equal to saying that Christians are "persecuted" in this nation when people say that liberals are "persecuted" on the campuses... It is almost laughable. Surely rare examples of people that "want" to might be found, but where there is no power no persecution can exist.
The county listens to their staff lawyers.
Counties and cities don't like to waste taxpayer money. Unlike Bush, they actually have to balance budgets.
If there attornyes advice is that they'll lose, city coucilmembers are unlikley to continue fighting it.
And I never said there was widespred liberal persecution on campuses. I said that there were rightwingers who have attitudes that are anti-academic freedom.
But you said it in answer to my post stating that there is no widespread persecution of liberals on campus and that it was pretty equivalent to saying Christians are persecuted because of this stuff....
So we ended up having a long conversation about it.
And the "opinions of their lawyers" is given by the council members not the lawyers. I am not positive that it was their advice to give up so quickly. As well as the fact that in almost every case of this type a responsible county council will get a second opinion as well as that of their staff....
It doesn't change that I believe that they gave up easily because the "advice" fell right in line with what they wanted to hear.
The only point was, there are kooks in iran who want to limit and regulate academic freedom, and we have them here too. Just not in large enough numbers yet, to have any real affect.
My second point, was that the analogy you try to draw is flawed, based on the example you gave.
State promotion of a religion is against the law. Sometimes, it has to be sorted out in court. In contrast, Liberalism on campuses has never been against the law and is not something you can or should legislate against. Apples and oranges.
No, it was the level of persecution... Regardless of whether one is "illegal" persecution would be about the same if either of these were successful. Only one was. That the seal has other religious symbolism on it makes it clear it was not "religion" that they cared about it was "Christianity" that they cared about... So either it was "illegal persecution" or a decision by a county council that can be construed by mainstream christians to be "persecution"...
Either way the analogy fit.
Also, there was no call to make liberalism "illegal" that is a STRAWMAN!!!! Nobody has worked to make it ILLEGAL to be liberal on a campus.
If "christians" do not want to recognize the authority and legal standing of a United States Federal Court, or the legal process in this country that is there perogative. ACLU evidently had a nearly airtight case in Redlands. The City cried "uncle". LA county, I don't know the facts about.
I hope we don't go down that road, of not recognizing the legitimacy of our legal system. .
Look. The analogy is equal because both are "protected", first the religious thing and the Freedom of Speech thing.. I think they may even be in the same amendment...
Secondly, the analogy is fitting. It matches rather well considering the powers in each of the settings....
Thirdly, it isn't even close when the President of a nation begins a process to do something or some lunatic states something...
"kooks" are not quite the same thing or even as close to "mainstream" as the President of a nation!
And finally, since both are protected by the Constitution and even the same Amendment it makes it particularly telling that you pretend that somebody as equally mainstream as the President of a Nation has suggested making it illegal to be Liberal on Campus... Nobody has stated such...
Your article in particular didn't suggest it. The only one that did was Jarod's kook who very much isn't the President.
Using public property and public offices to promote one religion is most certainly unconstitutional. The government is forbidden to do it.
Freedom of speech is broadly applied, with no such limitations in the constitution.
If you don't think even President Bush is promoting a theocratic agena with respect to education, I have two words for you:
Intelligent Design.
He has stated he supports teaching this pseudo-science, in public science clases.
He has not suggested firing the whole load and only adding those he approves of... That is bullpucky and they would most certainly be protected by that same amendment! This is such horse hockey redirect anyway!
It is pretty much the EXACT same thing. Liberals are not persecuted by the Conservatives on public campuses, it is such total hogwash as to be truly laughable. The same level of laughable as the Christians saying they are persecuted because of those stories above that I posted links to....
Now, basically... What I am saying is that neither group is "persecuted" and the Professors are most certainly not "harrassed" as you originally opined and later recanted.
Gaffer
Sanctimonious Prick
This is just his first step. The executions will follow. This is a theocratic govenment that thinks in terms of the 7th century. Anyone that thinks otherwise is the enemy. He's getting rid of any potential threat of people being educated in anything other than islamic law.
Too many people here think in terms of this country, with a Constitution and freedoms of all sorts. iran is as opposite of this country as they can get. The mind set is so much different. Liberals in iran are all the free thinkers. It lumps christians libs and everyone else together and they are persecuted. when iran finally falls, by whatever means, I expect the cruelty and atrocities will be on a level to match or exceed that of saddam.
Christians vs liberals in this country is apple to oranges over there.