Liberal is once again a complement!

Jarod said:
Friedman was a hack.
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Sure, that's why he was one of the 2 most influential economists of the past 100 years and is all over standerd text in economic books/classes. It's also why he got the Nobel Prize, John Bates Medel ect ect ect ect.
 
I never though Liberal was anything but a proud lable I choose for myself. I was merely pointing out how society has finally come full circle on this and now Conservative is the dirty word.

I dont consider it an insult even now, when its used in its proper context. Used to describe someone who wants to get into people's personal lives with marriage and sex and patroitism and religen... then its a dirty word. Used to describe someone who wants to cheat and scam and steal from the system.. then its a dirty word. Used for someone who belives in responsable fiscal policy and lowering spending and taxes.. That describes a pholosophy that has some merit.
 
Obfuscate said:
Sure, that's why he was one of the 2 most influential economists of the past 100 years and is all over standerd text in economic books/classes. It's also why he got the Nobel Prize, John Bates Medel ect ect ect ect.
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And look where following his theory's have gotten us? He had some basic ideas that are valid and good, he and Greenspan just carried them way too far.
 
Jarod said:
And look where following his theory's have gotten us? .
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Yeah, like out of Stagflation and into greatest prosperity in the history of Man. If only things were like the 60's and 70's again!! Billions of people out of Poverty in South America, China, India. Just think we could still have fixed exchange rates and the Phillips Curve if only he hadn't come along. LOL.
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, like out of Stagflation and into greatest prosperity in the history of Man. If only things were like the 60's and 70's again!! Billions of people out of Poverty in South America, China, India. Just think we could still have fixed exchange rates and the Phillips Curve if only he hadn't come along. LOL.
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No one is proposing that we return to 60's policies, we just know that his ideas helped out the economy for other reasons than the ones he said.
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, like out of Stagflation and into greatest prosperity in the history of Man. If only things were like the 60's and 70's again!! Billions of people out of Poverty in South America, China, India. Just think we could still have fixed exchange rates and the Phillips Curve if only he hadn't come along. LOL.
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Even Greenspan acknoledges he followed Friedman way too far. Sure Friedman had some ideas that were good, but you can carry anything to far into an extreem position.... Friedman did that.

Were he alive I suspect even he would admit it.

Friedman was corrupted by the Republicans and the power hungry.
 
Obfuscate said:
Sure, that's why he was one of the 2 most influential economists of the past 100 years and is all over standerd text in economic books/classes. It's also why he got the Nobel Prize, John Bates Medel ect ect ect ect.
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Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz also got the John Bates medal and Nobel Prize.
 
Yeah, I respect Stiglitz and Krugman and don't call them hacks even when I disagree about policy.
 
Friedman became a hack when he allowed his theory's to be extended way too far. When they started being used by the corrupt and unscruplous to justify fraud and wrongdoing... he became a hack.
 
Jarod said:
Even Greenspan acknoledges he followed Friedman way too far.
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Greenspan made his worst decisions is when he went away from Friedmans Monetarism. Friedman always strongly supported Greenspans Federal Reserve policy until the 01-02 era which Friedman is on record saying it was a mistake, as it obviously was as we see the current financial mess.
 
Obfuscate said:
Greenspan made his worst decisions is when he went away from Friedmans Monetarism. Friedman always strongly supported Greenspans Federal Reserve policy until the 01-02 era which Friedman is on record saying it was a mistake, as it obviously was as we see the current financial mess.
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Id like to see where Friedman is on record saying that.
 
lib⋅er⋅al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.
 
Watermark said:
No one is proposing that we return to 60's policies, we just know that his ideas helped out the economy for other reasons than the ones he said.
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Friedman was the first major economist to predict stagflation before it happened. He discredited the Phillips Curve before the Phillips Curve discredited itself. His ideas of controlling the money supply to control inflation was the policy that ended the double digit inflation. He predicted the fall of Socialism economics when most acedemics thought it was the wave of the future.
 
con⋅serv⋅a⋅tive   /kənˈsɜrvətɪv/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-sur-vuh-tiv] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
2. cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate.
3. traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness: conservative suit.
4. (often initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the Conservative party.
5. (initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Conservative Jews or Conservative Judaism.
6. having the power or tendency to conserve; preservative.
7. Mathematics. (of a vector or vector function) having curl equal to zero; irrotational; lamellar.
–noun 8. a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc.
9. a supporter of conservative political policies.
10. (initial capital letter) a member of a conservative political party, esp. the Conservative party in Great Britain.
11. a preservative.
 
Obfuscate said:
Friedman was the first major economist to predict stagflation before it happened. He discredited the Phillips Curve before the Phillips Curve discredited itself. His ideas of controlling the money supply to control inflation was the policy that ended the double digit inflation. He predicted the fall of Socialism economics when most academics thought it was the wave of the future.
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Socialism economics?

You do know that Keynes was a huge critic of socialism don't you?

I mean, sure, the Philips curve has been discredited. Nothing has really come up to replace it accurately though. And I'm no expert on economics, but I know that Keynesianism hasn't been entirely discredited, although the neo-Keynesians have adopted a lot of neoliberal though.
 
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Obfuscate said:
Yeah, I respect Stiglitz and Krugman and don't call them hacks even when I disagree about policy.
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I'm just saying... a lot of liberal and conservative economists have gotten those prizes. FA Hayek won the prize along with a member of the Swedish Social Democratic party.
 
Watermark said:
Socialism economics?

You do know that Keynes was a huge critic of socialism don't you?

I mean, sure, the Philips curve has been discredited. Nothing has really come up to replace it accurately though. And I'm no expert on economics, but I know that Keynesianism hasn't been entirely discredited, although the neo-Keynesians have adopted a lot of neoliberal though.
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I never called Keynes a Socialist, I was referring to Friedmans, along with Hayeks calling of the systems of USSR, China ect to fail, not Keynesians, in fact if you read much Friedman he has a high regard for Keynes even if he disagreed with him on many issues.

Also, the Nairu or Natural Rate of Unemployment has for the most part replaced the Phillips Curve.
 
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