LOL: our retarded media at the Dem debate

gonzojournals said:
Political necessity? Why not just be a regular, run of the mill Christian, then?
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How would that look to the public? Switching to Southern Baptism right before an election? Shady. He couldn't change that dramatically and get away with it.

But I really don't know I'm only speculating.
 
Beefy said:
If you don't want him talking about democrats, then you can flat shut the fuck up about Ron Paul.
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Let them say want they want about Ron Paul. That is what Ron Paul would do. We both know they could not win a rational debate against him and win over the American public in the end.
 
gonzojournals said:
Again, my main objection to Romney is that he is a Mormon-- in my mind, that means he can be convinced of anything.
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I don't know if your right about him not really being a Morman--but I know a family of Mormans from Utah. I have been doing business with them for over 5 years with no contract. Just a agreement over the phone. I have never met a more honest business family in my life.

If I were to pick a religion to help me win in politics, I think I would pick the Christan religion---but that would not be very Christian now---would it?

You could say "he will believe anything" no matter what reigion the person is---if your not the same religion. Your a Christian--right? The only one?
 
I see what you are saying, but to me there seems to be a legitimacy to "real" religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) that is not present in religions such as Scientology and Mormonism...it seems to me that, even though atheists think it is all crap, even the atheists can recognise a difference in ridiculousness.
 
gonzojournals said:
I see what you are saying, but to me there seems to be a legitimacy to "real" religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) that is not present in religions such as Scientology and Mormonism...it seems to me that, even though atheists think it is all crap, even the atheists can recognise a difference in ridiculousness.
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Mormonism appears more ridiculous because of its relatively recent creation. Modern humans tend to think of religion as something intrinsically ancient and traditionalistic, and therefore have problems with "New" religions like Mormonism and Scientology.

Contemporary Christians are reacting to Mormonism much the way Jews reacted to Christianity in the years following the death of Christ. Because of the recentness of the events, Jews were skeptical that Christ could be anything other than a charlatan or a rabble rouser. Much the way establishment Christians today view Mormons.

However, to me, it's essentially a situation of you claiming that your imaginary friend is blue, and Mormons claiming that he is red. And you think they're nuts because you've been saying he's blue since 20 AD, but they've only been saying he's red since 1830. It's really quite an arbitrary distinction, but I don't expect you to acknowledge it. :)
 
gonzojournals said:
I see what you are saying, but to me there seems to be a legitimacy to "real" religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) that is not present in religions such as Scientology and Mormonism...it seems to me that, even though atheists think it is all crap, even the atheists can recognise a difference in ridiculousness.
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Why is there any more legitimacy to Christianity than to Mormonism? Just because one is older? Come on, you are not that intelectually vapid are you?
 
Epicurus said:
Mormonism appears more ridiculous because of its relatively recent creation. Modern humans tend to think of religion as something intrinsically ancient and traditionalistic, and therefore have problems with "New" religions like Mormonism and Scientology.

Contemporary Christians are reacting to Mormonism much the way Jews reacted to Christianity in the years following the death of Christ. Because of the recentness of the events, Jews were skeptical that Christ could be anything other than a charlatan or a rabble rouser. Much the way establishment Christians today view Mormons.

However, to me, it's essentially a situation of you claiming that your imaginary friend is blue, and Mormons claiming that he is red. And you think they're nuts because you've been saying he's blue since 20 AD, but they've only been saying he's red since 1830. It's really quite an arbitrary distinction, but I don't expect you to acknowledge it. :)
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Well put!
 
Jarod said:
Why is there any more legitimacy to Christianity than to Mormonism? Just because one is older? Come on, you are not that intelectually vapid are you?
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I suppose that I am. The court cases, the lying about the source of their beliefs (using Egyptian cookbooks as "golden tablets"), believing that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers, believing that you become a god after you die, believing that black people are the pariah of the universe, etc.

Much more ridiculous than regular Christianity.
 
Epicurus said:
Mormonism appears more ridiculous because of its relatively recent creation. Modern humans tend to think of religion as something intrinsically ancient and traditionalistic, and therefore have problems with "New" religions like Mormonism and Scientology.
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With you so far.

Contemporary Christians are reacting to Mormonism much the way Jews reacted to Christianity in the years following the death of Christ. Because of the recentness of the events, Jews were skeptical that Christ could be anything other than a charlatan or a rabble rouser. Much the way establishment Christians today view Mormons.
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Except Christianity was based on the Jewish belief of a Messiah, whereas Mormonism is basically a separate religion that uses Christian names for entities in order to gain legitimacy.

However, to me, it's essentially a situation of you claiming that your imaginary friend is blue, and Mormons claiming that he is red. And you think they're nuts because you've been saying he's blue since 20 AD, but they've only been saying he's red since 1830. It's really quite an arbitrary distinction, but I don't expect you to acknowledge it. :)
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But, as I said, Christianity came from previously existing Jewish beliefs...Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, a person that had been previously written about...rather than creating a new religion on widely different beliefs, it was more of an evolution of the old Jewish religion, though by now it has been transformed considerably.

However, Mormonism, as I said, basically just uses Judeo-Christian ideology as a source of legitimacy, using Judeo-Christian names as a means of labeling entities and beliefs that have no root in either Christianity or Judaism.

Did I answer your post to your satisfaction, you bastard? :P
 
gonzojournals said:
But, as I said, Christianity came from previously existing Jewish beliefs...Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, a person that had been previously written about...rather than creating a new religion on widely different beliefs, it was more of an evolution of the old Jewish religion, though by now it has been transformed considerably.
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Couldn't Protestantism and consequently Mormonism be seen as "evolutions" of the same Judeo-Christian religion?
 
Epicurus said:
Couldn't Protestantism and consequently Mormonism be seen as "evolutions" of the same Judeo-Christian religion?
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Protestantism could be, certainly, although as you may or may not be aware I view Protestants as heretics and, at best, fools.

Mormonism, however, when the actual ideology and beliefs are analysed, has virtually no root in Christianity or even Protestantism beyond the names of entities.

EDIT: Let me clarify further...Christianity evolved out of an actual belief of the Jews (the coming of the Messiah). Jesus, then, with his claim to be the Messiah, brought the Jewish religion to a new, logical step. Mormonism, however, is not based out of a pre-existing belief...there is nothing in Christianity to suggest that you will become a god after death, or that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers. Mormonism was forced to write entirely new scriptures for its beliefs, lifting the names to give it a sense of legitimacy.
 
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I agree with you I'm just sparring at this point.

Mormonism has deeper roots in Ancient Gnosticism than it does in historically-practiced Christianity. Read Harold Bloom's study of Mormonism, The American Religion, and you will find a fascinating and entirely unique religion that has barely any similarities to other modern religions.
 
Epicurus said:
I agree with you I'm just sparring at this point.
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I figured as much...it is fine, though, I don't get upset at debate...that is why I find it so odd when people react as strongly as they do to argument.

Mormonism has deeper roots in Ancient Gnosticism than it does in historically-practiced Christianity. Read Harold Bloom's study of Mormonism, The American Religion, and you will find a fascinating and entirely unique religion that has barely any similarities to other modern religions.
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I will have to read it...sounds like Mormonism is just another part of American culture that wishes it were based in reality. It seems like American culture as a whole is just so devoid of substance or real cultural history.
 
gonzojournals said:
Again, my main objection to Romney is that he is a Mormon-- in my mind, that means he can be convinced of anything.
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My main objection to romney is that he was an investmant banker and helped to create the current finiancial mess.
So how could we expect reasonable souloutions from him.

he is also a republican but so are most of the dem candidates to some degree.
 
uscitizen said:
My main objection to romney is that he was an investmant banker and helped to create the current finiancial mess.
So how could we expect reasonable souloutions from him.

he is also a republican but so are most of the dem candidates to some degree.
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Explain how the Democratic candidates are Republicans to a degree, and whether you mean real Republicans or neocons.
 
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