McCain is the R's best choice.

Darla said:
I haven't looked at polls this week, but the last ones I saw a couple of weeks ago showed him winning.

I think he would win because what you fail to appreciate is the number of Americans who know full well that class warfare is being waged, and they are on the losing end of the battle. Screaming hysterically "class warfare class warfare" whenever anyone mentions that the super-rich have been waging a very sucessfull class war against the rest of us, is like screaming "race card race card" whenever someone mentions that racism exists.

It's just not that effective anymore.

My guess is that you end up pulling the Republican lever no matter what. The only possible exception would be if Huckabee got the nod, and i still don't think it's a safe bet what you'd do.
Click to expand...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Those are the most recent that I am aware of and what I am basing my info off of. The whole class warfare crap is exactly that... crap. The whole concept of lets go out and punish those who are more successful than me line of thought is idiotic.

You say the rich are waging a war against the rest of us, which is also crap. How long has the Dem mantra of tax the rich more been in effect? Of course the wealthy are going to respond to that. If Edwards really believed in the bullshit he throws out, then why is he not for eliminating the current tax code in favor of the flat tax? It is the tax codes complexity that allows special interest groups to bribe the politicians to get their deductions and loopholes written into the tax code. Simplify it. Flat tax with a standard dedcution. No other loopholes or deductions.

I simply don't care what you THINK I may or may not do. I voted for Salazar for Senate because Pete Coors was not a viable alternative. I would do the same for President. For the 100th time, yes, I am going to favor economic conservatives/ social moderates or as close to that as I can get.

As for your "screaming class warfare" crap.... give me a break. How can you honestly state that Edwards is not playing the class warfare card? It is completely dishonest for anyone to suggest that he is not doing so.
 
Dungheap said:
One man's "class warfare hack" is another's populist. "Class warfare" is a term thrown around when someone has the balls to criticize and attack the moneyed interests. What's next "welfare queens?"
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Bullshit. Class warfare is when someone trys to tell the public that they should hold the successful responsible for their relative lack of success.
 
Superfreak said:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Those are the most recent that I am aware of and what I am basing my info off of. The whole class warfare crap is exactly that... crap. The whole concept of lets go out and punish those who are more successful than me line of thought is idiotic.

You say the rich are waging a war against the rest of us, which is also crap. How long has the Dem mantra of tax the rich more been in effect? Of course the wealthy are going to respond to that. If Edwards really believed in the bullshit he throws out, then why is he not for eliminating the current tax code in favor of the flat tax? It is the tax codes complexity that allows special interest groups to bribe the politicians to get their deductions and loopholes written into the tax code. Simplify it. Flat tax with a standard dedcution. No other loopholes or deductions.

I simply don't care what you THINK I may or may not do. I voted for Salazar for Senate because Pete Coors was not a viable alternative. I would do the same for President. For the 100th time, yes, I am going to favor economic conservatives/ social moderates or as close to that as I can get.

As for your "screaming class warfare" crap.... give me a break. How can you honestly state that Edwards is not playing the class warfare card? It is completely dishonest for anyone to suggest that he is not doing so.
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Well, I can honestly state it, because I honestly know that class warfare is being waged against us in this country, and that is why the gap between the rich and everyone else has widened so greatly, and keeps getting wider. Some people, even some economists, perceive this as a growing problem. I mean, I know it's of no concern to you, but some of us feel differently.

And pointing out that gap, which is a fact, is not waging class warfare. That's a red herring.
 
Darla said:
In fact on this note, SF, you remind me of a recent phenomenon which I've noticed with some alarm.

And that is, all of the die-hard Republicans who have been just swooning over Obama. I mean, I never saw so many Republicans lining up for the chance to tell the world just how much they loved a Democrat. David Brooks, neo-con whore, Republican hack, and conservative ass kisser, has been going ga-ga over obama over at the Ny Times. How much love from David Brooks can one man handle?

I mean it's all over. I even saw a couple of real right wing vicious bitches I used to know, swooning over how Obama was their favorite Democrat on another board. They just love Obama. I mean, they're not voting for him or anything, but they sure do love him.

Obama is your favorite. Obama is Chap's favorite.

I mean it's hard to find a republican who doesn't love Obama!

And it's when I ask myself why that I start to get real nervous.
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No. Clark is my favorite Dem. Richardson is my favorite dem running. Obama is the better of the three frontrunners. I do not agree with many of his policy positions, but I will take him over Hillary or Edwards.

Given that I told you I would vote for McCain and most likely Rudy over Obama should tell you how little I am "swooning" over him. Is he a good orator. Yes. Do I think among the frontrunners that he would do the best job among the dems at bringing the country back together? yes. That hardly equates to giving my undying support for the man.

As I stated, if it is Obama and Huckabee and Bloomberg does not enter, then Obama would get my vote. But I personally believe in that scenario Bloomberg enters and gets my vote.

The one thing we do know for certain is that you will pull the Dem ticket regardless.
 
Superfreak said:
No. Clark is my favorite Dem. Richardson is my favorite dem running. Obama is the better of the three frontrunners. I do not agree with many of his policy positions, but I will take him over Hillary or Edwards.

Given that I told you I would vote for McCain and most likely Rudy over Obama should tell you how little I am "swooning" over him. Is he a good orator. Yes. Do I think among the frontrunners that he would do the best job among the dems at bringing the country back together? yes. That hardly equates to giving my undying support for the man.

As I stated, if it is Obama and Huckabee and Bloomberg does not enter, then Obama would get my vote. But I personally believe in that scenario Bloomberg enters and gets my vote.

The one thing we do know for certain is that you will pull the Dem ticket regardless.
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Policy-wise, I see hardly any difference between Obama and John Kerry.

But, you voted for Bush over kerry. I doubt you'll ever pull the lever for Obama.
 
Darla said:
Well, I can honestly state it, because I honestly know that class warfare is being waged against us in this country, and that is why the gap between the rich and everyone else has widened so greatly, and keeps getting wider. Some people, even some economists, perceive this as a growing problem. I mean, I know it's of no concern to you, but some of us feel differently.

And pointing out that gap, which is a fact, is not waging class warfare. That's a red herring.
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Lets talk about the income gap for a moment. If everyone sees an increase in income of 10%... does the income gap increase? decrease? or stay the same?

I'll save you the time... the gap increases. Which means that the only way for it to decrease is for the percentage gained in income by the lower and middle classes to be greater than the percentage gained by the upper class.

So yes, those who bitch about the "income gap" increasing are typically engaging in class warfare. They are saying that the wealthy are not allowed to earn the same percentage as those in the middle and lower income brackets.

Now, please note I said typically above. When you have a percentage increase in income for the wealthy that is GREATER than the percentage increase for the lower/middle class, THEN you have a valid argument that the wealthy are taking advantage. There are certainly cases where this exists. Just ask trial lawyers like John Edwards to compare his income to that of his legal assistant(s) over the years.
 
Superfreak said:
No. Clark is my favorite Dem. Richardson is my favorite dem running. Obama is the better of the three frontrunners. I do not agree with many of his policy positions, but I will take him over Hillary or Edwards.

Given that I told you I would vote for McCain and most likely Rudy over Obama should tell you how little I am "swooning" over him. Is he a good orator. Yes. Do I think among the frontrunners that he would do the best job among the dems at bringing the country back together? yes. That hardly equates to giving my undying support for the man.

As I stated, if it is Obama and Huckabee and Bloomberg does not enter, then Obama would get my vote. But I personally believe in that scenario Bloomberg enters and gets my vote.

The one thing we do know for certain is that you will pull the Dem ticket regardless.
Click to expand...

No I'm going to vote for Cynthia McKinney if Hillary is the nominee, but I will vote for either Obama or Edwards if they are.

The New York times had a great piece on Bloomberg yesterday, showing how liberal he is. In fact, on everything besides for the Iraqi war, where other than one time coming out against timetables for withdrawal, nobody really knows where he stands, he's quite liberal.

I mean, quite liberal.
 
Cypress said:
I hope you're not advocating that as a historical analogy. The philippines insurgency was only put down, only after Americans resorted to some of the worst and most ruthless war crimes in our history. Including burning villages, executing people, and putting filipinos in concentration camps. That's what is took to subjugate the phillipines. Which, is the historical equivalent of "turn iraq into an ashphalt parking lot", that some cons advocate.
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I am pointing out how the supermajority of the US didn't care.
 
I hate the term "class warfare." It implies that there is a strategy to pit the lower classes against the upper, and bring the upper classes down. It's one of those despicable tools the right uses to keep discussion to a minimum on the fact that the growing gap between the rich & poor is one of America's most consistent, pressing & dire problems.

Most of the talk I hear that is usually labeled "class warfare" is geared toward lifting those working Americans on the short-end of the stick up, not bringing the rich down.

What I find even more amazing is how many people get sucked into something like Bush's propoganda about his tax cut, which was a "fair" one because "everyone got a cut." That kind of thing is truly insulting to the masses....
 
Darla said:
Ok, maybe I am retarded, can anyone help me out? I read these polls as showing Edwards easily besting Republican candidates in the general.
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Edwards vs. Rudy.....

Most recent poll... Rudy has a 1% lead over Edwards.

The average... Edwards has a 2.7% lead over Rudy.

This means that the trend is in favor of Rudy, but the average still favors Edwards. The 2.7% is well within the margin for error for most polls. Thus to say that Edwards easily wins is ridiculous.... especially given that the most recent poll shows him LOSING. (though still well within the margin of error)

Edwards vs. McCain....

Most recent poll has Edwards losing by 4%

Average has Edwards up by 3.7%

Same as for Rudy, Edwards is losing ground to McCain, is behind in the most recent poll and the average is well within the margin of error of the polls. So again, he is not easily going to beat McCain.
 
Jarod said:
Out of the Republican field he will make the best president.

WRL was right, he seems to be surging, I thought it was a joke.


I dont think he beats Obama in the general however. This is an election about change and McCain would not be the canidate of Change between the two of them.

McCain is more of the same in many ways. His wife is a liability and remember as Geroge Bush pointed out in South Carolina a few years ago, he has black children!
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His children are probably voting for Obama.

McCain isn't really the best choice for the republicans .. it6's coming down to the fact that he's the only choice for the republicans. As all the others have stepped into the spotlight their warts have become all the more obvious along with the knowledge that they don't have the ability to win in '08.

McCain is "surging" by default.
 
Onceler said:
I hate the term "class warfare." It implies that there is a strategy to pit the lower classes against the upper, and bring the upper classes down. It's one of those despicable tools the right uses to keep discussion to a minimum on the fact that the growing gap between the rich & poor is one of America's most consistent, pressing & dire problems.

Most of the talk I hear that is usually labeled "class warfare" is geared toward lifting those working Americans on the short-end of the stick up, not bringing the rich down.

What I find even more amazing is how many people get sucked into something like Bush's propoganda about his tax cut, which was a "fair" one because "everyone got a cut." That kind of thing is truly insulting to the masses....
Click to expand...


Read what I wrote about the income gap. Because the only way to close the gap is to say that the lower and middle income deserve a higher percentage gain than the rich. That is the ONLY way the gap narrows.

You want to eliminate the bullshit with regards to tax cuts, then you should promote the flat tax with standard deduction. The bullshit propaganda from the left is acting as though our current tax system is "progressive". It is not. It is regressive. As long as the idiots in DC allow deductions and loopholes to allow the wealthy to pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class then it is regressive. But too many dems have bought into the whole line of crap that it is progressive.

As for Bush's tax cuts.... as I have stated before, they do not work in the long term without corresponding spending cuts. That said, when you look at the percentages cut from each bracket, yes they were "fair". Of course the wealthy are going to get the bulk of the dollars back as they pay in the bulk of the dollars. That is "fair".

However, as well all know... your definition of "fair" is that the bulk of the dollars go to the poor and middle class.

I personally do not have a problem with doing that, but that does not make it "fair". Fair would be having the tax code treat everyone identically. We will not get that under our current system.... and it most certainly wouldn't be fair to give larger dollar cuts to the poor and middle class vs. the rich. It may be just, but not fair.
 
blackascoal said:
His children are probably voting for Obama.

McCain isn't really the best choice for the republicans .. it6's coming down to the fact that he's the only choice for the republicans. As all the others have stepped into the spotlight their warts have become all the more obvious along with the knowledge that they don't have the ability to win in '08.

McCain is "surging" by default.
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1) I have no clue as to how his kids are voting.

2) As for the rest, for the most part I agree. He is not the ideal candidate for the Reps. But he is the best of the bunch.... for as much as that is worth. Romney blew his chance. Rudy will remain quiet until Florida. Then we shall see what support he has. McCain will do well in NH, struggle in S Carolina, then we will see just how much support and momentum he truly has.
 
Onceler said:
I hate the term "class warfare." It implies that there is a strategy to pit the lower classes against the upper, and bring the upper classes down. It's one of those despicable tools the right uses to keep discussion to a minimum on the fact that the growing gap between the rich & poor is one of America's most consistent, pressing & dire problems.

Most of the talk I hear that is usually labeled "class warfare" is geared toward lifting those working Americans on the short-end of the stick up, not bringing the rich down.

What I find even more amazing is how many people get sucked into something like Bush's propoganda about his tax cut, which was a "fair" one because "everyone got a cut." That kind of thing is truly insulting to the masses....
Click to expand...

QFT!
 
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