McCain's Solution For Rising Healthcare Costs:

Epicurus said:
You say McCain is perpetuating a strawman.

I say that is irrelevant. Perception is what is important, and if McCain can successfully convince voters that the Democratic solution is just another "big government" solution then he has a chance.

Personally, while I think that the Democratic plan is exactly that, I am well aware that the reality of the situation is unimportant and that perception will decide our next President.
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I can't disagree with that last statement.
 
LadyT said:
He didn't advocate any solution to the problem at hand. That was empty rhetoric. We have tax breaks for insurance, we have health savings plans, obviously these aren't solutions when millions are still uninsured and underinsured.
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I don't personally see the relatively small percentage of uninsured as deserving of the overhyped attention it has received.

Even if the numbers were greater and it were a significant problem, I would still oppose any action because we are still in no financial shape to address it meaningfully.

Every year that we maintain the status quo, we slip further and further into debt.

Now is not the time to be promising the moon and the stars to voters. It is infinitely more important that we begin paying down the deficit.
 
LadyT said:
I can't disagree with that last statement.
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Personally I think your side is perpetuating a strawman too by claiming that McCain's stance on the issue is not a solution.

But in the end it will be the American people that will decide whether Republican or Democratic lies will dominate this season. It's always lies, it's only the color that changes.
 
Epicurus said:
You say McCain is perpetuating a strawman.

I say that is irrelevant. Perception is what is important, and if McCain can successfully convince voters that the Democratic solution is just another "big government" solution then he has a chance.

Personally, while I think that the Democratic plan is exactly that, I am well aware that the reality of the situation is unimportant and that perception will decide our next President.
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Well, funny you mention that. "Socialized medicine" polls better than the current system even with the scary "socialized" tag on it. Even with the worst framing possible, the framing the Republicans chose, the American people prefer "socialized medicine" to the current system.
 
Epicurus said:
I don't personally see the relatively small percentage of uninsured as deserving of the overhyped attention it has received.

Even if the numbers were greater and it were a significant problem, I would still oppose any action because we are still in no financial shape to address it meaningfully.

Every year that we maintain the status quo, we slip further and further into debt.

Now is not the time to be promising the moon and the stars to voters. It is infinitely more important that we begin paying down the deficit.
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Funny you should mention this too since McCain is proposing three times more deficit spending than either Obama or Hillary and their deficit spending takes into account their "nationalized healthcare" policy proposals while McCain offers nothing on that score.
 
This isn't a debate that is going to be resolved in this thread.

I have my beliefs about which system is morally and fiscally more responsible, and you have yours.

It's just now a question of who is better at selling their position and misrepresenting their opponent's position to the American people and we won't know the results of that til November.
 
Onceler said:
If I can't afford health coverage, my chances of dying are better, and once I die, my essential sense of myself is out the window.
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If you can't afford health coverage, what makes you think I can afford to pay for yours, AND pay for mine at the same time?

Some people have very strange definitions of "equality".....
 
Dungheap said:
Funny you should mention this too since McCain is proposing three times more deficit spending than either Obama or Hillary and their deficit spending takes into account their "nationalized healthcare" policy proposals while McCain offers nothing on that score.
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Yeah well that's one of many many many many many many many reasons I'm not voting for John McCain.

But whether that means Obama will get my vote remains to be seen.

None of the three candidates in this race are anywhere close to fiscally responsible.

We have been running a deficit for years now and all you hear about on the campaign trail is more wars and more social programs.

If the Democrats win, you get saddled with another bureaucracy.

If Republicans win, we invade Iran and stay in Iraq for 5 more years.

God bless America...
 
Epicurus said:
I don't personally see the relatively small percentage of uninsured as deserving of the overhyped attention it has received.

Even if the numbers were greater and it were a significant problem, I would still oppose any action because we are still in no financial shape to address it meaningfully.

Every year that we maintain the status quo, we slip further and further into debt.

Now is not the time to be promising the moon and the stars to voters. It is infinitely more important that we begin paying down the deficit.
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15% is not a small percentage.
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=235948

And secondly a national payer system does not have to be mandatory
 
LadyT said:
15% is not a small percentage.
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=235948

And secondly a national payer system does not have to be mandatory
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To me, when the cost of taking action is considered, 15% is too small a percentage to make it worthwhile.

And to your second point, yes I am aware, but I am opposed to it in principle.

Between the two forms of government intrusion in healthcare, yes I would prefer my nationalized healthcare without mandates.

But I would prefer to avoid government intrusion at all.

To me, the ideal candidate would tell Americans to get off their fat asses, exercise, and begin eating right, instead of promising them another shiny bureaucracy.
 
Darla said:
McCain has not released his “health care plan” as of yet. I believe he has claimed he’s going to do that this week.
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I hope it consists almost solely of recommending healthy foods and good gyms across the nation for all Americans.
 
Epicurus said:
I hope it consists almost solely of recommending healthy foods and good gyms across the nation for all Americans.
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Since DH is absolutely correct in his statements about polling on this issue, and since I don’t want McCain to be president; I hope so too.
 
LadyT said:
I can summarize for it for you:

'jack $hit'
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I think it’ll be something along the lines of private medical accounts (hey, here is your 18 cents per gallon cut of which you’ll see about 3 cents, and now you can start saving for that medivac trip to the hospital), and some variation of, it’s fat people’s fault. Which should just about put the nail in the old fuck’s coffin.
 
It would be refreshing for McCain to say that every American deserves to have the same health insurance that helped him beat cancer but he probably thinks he did that through hard work and saving his pennies.
 
I read the same polls you do, but I honestly don't think being pro-nationalized healthcare will be as beneficial once the details of the Democratic plans are released.

But this goes back to an ideological disagreement that we are not going to resolve. I believe that Social Security has become a massive, multi-generational leech on young Americans' income.

We are paying into a system that we will never see the rewards of, so many of us understandably view the program in its entirety as a failure.

I believe we are approaching another crossroads with universal healthcare, and I want to be able to tell my kids that there were some of us in 2008 who saw the dangers and tried to avoid passing the debt onto our children.
 
Epicurus said:
I read the same polls you do, but I honestly don't think being pro-nationalized healthcare will be as beneficial once the details of the Democratic plans are released.

But this goes back to an ideological disagreement that we are not going to resolve. I believe that Social Security has become a massive, multi-generational leech on young Americans' income.

We are paying into a system that we will never see the rewards of, so many of us understandably view the program in its entirety as a failure.

I believe we are approaching another crossroads with universal healthcare, and I want to be able to tell my kids that there were some of us in 2008 who saw the dangers and tried to avoid passing the debt onto our children.
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