Morality Defined

Your challenge makes no sense. Patterns don't require a designer. Adding those extra descriptors are meaningless, patterns, being patterns, already have some form of regularity in them, thats why they're called patterns. You're a moron.

I didn't "add" those extra descriptors, they were there from the start. You didn't read that part because you didn't want to read that part. Indeed, it makes all the difference in the world to my argument. Complex patterns which aren't the product of intelligent design, do not occur predictably and consistently. You haven't demonstrated it, Arnold hasn't demonstrated it, Mott hasn't demonstrated it, and you won't, because they do not exist as the result of randomness. I even offered a completely legitimate scientific experiment to support this theory, and you called me an idiot. If you are just unable to accept reality, you should see the doc for more meds.
 
I didn't "add" those extra descriptors, they were there from the start. You didn't read that part because you didn't want to read that part. Indeed, it makes all the difference in the world to my argument. Complex patterns which aren't the product of intelligent design, do not occur predictably and consistently. You haven't demonstrated it, Arnold hasn't demonstrated it, Mott hasn't demonstrated it, and you won't, because they do not exist as the result of randomness. I even offered a completely legitimate scientific experiment to support this theory, and you called me an idiot. If you are just unable to accept reality, you should see the doc for more meds.

Patterns imply predictability. You were redundant and idiotic from the start.
 
Patterns imply predictability. You were redundant and idiotic from the start.

Patterns and predictable patterns are two different things, as you illustrated with your idiotic rain example and Arnold with his causeway, and Mott with his crystals and snowflakes. Life cycles, and makeup of living organisms have a consistent and predictable pattern of complexity, not found in randomness. In fact, it defies randomness completely, and supports the concept that all living things are originally constructed or designed by intelligence.

We can have one of two possibilities here. We either originated through intelligent design, or we originated through random chance. The observational evidence we have available, suggests intelligence and contradicts randomness. This doesn't "prove" but it is a valid and logical theory.

You refuse to accept this for the same reason as Arnold and Mott, you don't believe in God, so the idea of an intelligent creator is something you will refuse to allow because of your personal convictions. You shouldn't ever allow your personal faith to influence your thought on matters of scientific discovery.
 
Patterns and predictable patterns are two different things, as you illustrated with your idiotic rain example and Arnold with his causeway, and Mott with his crystals and snowflakes. Life cycles, and makeup of living organisms have a consistent and predictable pattern of complexity, not found in randomness. In fact, it defies randomness completely, and supports the concept that all living things are originally constructed or designed by intelligence.

We can have one of two possibilities here. We either originated through intelligent design, or we originated through random chance. The observational evidence we have available, suggests intelligence and contradicts randomness. This doesn't "prove" but it is a valid and logical theory.

You refuse to accept this for the same reason as Arnold and Mott, you don't believe in God, so the idea of an intelligent creator is something you will refuse to allow because of your personal convictions. You shouldn't ever allow your personal faith to influence your thought on matters of scientific discovery.

Then explain the paradox you just created. If there is an intelligent designer who/what and where is this designer and where did it/he/she come from? What specifically did this designer design and who designed the designer and who designed the designers designer?

You are correct that one should not allow ones personal beliefs influence your thoughts on science but one should at least understand what science is before profering that advice.

Clearly you don't or you would stop using your false paradigm.
 
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I don't. I believe it is possible they do.

This is the point of my entire argument, and you can't see it because you simply don't want to see it. You have offered nothing to refute my theory, nothing to suggest another alternative, and you readily admit we can't definitively "know" for certain, yet you seem to know for certain, there is no possibility of intelligent design. Can you explain that dichotomy?

There you go again Dixie, you just misrepresented what the man said. He did not say there is no way to know with certainty. He said there is no way to know something absolutely.
 
Patterns and predictable patterns are two different things, as you illustrated with your idiotic rain example and Arnold with his causeway, and Mott with his crystals and snowflakes. Life cycles, and makeup of living organisms have a consistent and predictable pattern of complexity, not found in randomness. In fact, it defies randomness completely, and supports the concept that all living things are originally constructed or designed by intelligence.

We can have one of two possibilities here. We either originated through intelligent design, or we originated through random chance. The observational evidence we have available, suggests intelligence and contradicts randomness. This doesn't "prove" but it is a valid and logical theory.

You refuse to accept this for the same reason as Arnold and Mott, you don't believe in God, so the idea of an intelligent creator is something you will refuse to allow because of your personal convictions. You shouldn't ever allow your personal faith to influence your thought on matters of scientific discovery.



Hey dunce. An element of predictability is what makes something a pattern.

The definition of many words you will not accept because you're simply retarded, I guess.
 
Then explain the paradox you just created. If there is an intelligent designer who/what and where is this designer and where did it/he/she come from? What specifically did this designer design and who designed the designer and who designed the designers designer?

You are correct that one should not allow ones personal beliefs influence your thoughts on science but one should at least understand what science is before profering that advice.

Clearly you don't or you would stop using your false paradigm.

Allow me to clarify a few misconceptions and assumptions you seem to have. First, it isn't required to identify the source to theorize there is a source. We don't fully understand why and how gravity works, but it does exist. We don't fully understand black holes, but they do exist. Can you imagine the frustration of Ben Franklin, had he been subjected to these challenges upon the discovery that lightning was indeed electricity? Well Ben, where is this big Power Station in the Sky?

Secondly, and probably most fundamental to this debate, "intelligence," doesn't mean "god" or any specific entity. It simply means "intelligence" and what may or may not have created it, is beside the point. This is where your judgment and objectivity is tainted, in my opinion. You assume an intelligent designer is a "he" or "it" and I have never made that argument. Perhaps, and this is just an example, the 'intelligence' is actually a form of 'energy' (for lack of a better word) and we simply don't understand it, or we are unable to comprehend it at this time? Perhaps the 'intelligence' comes from a different realm or dimension, one we aren't even aware of the existence of, at this time? You see, the source of intelligence need not be defined or identified, in order to theorize its role in origin of life.

The theory of intelligent design is more than just some religiously-based falsehood, or myth, there are tangible physical and biological elements that point to an intelligent creator as being responsible for the origin of life. Perhaps this 'intelligence' no longer exists, and life as we know it, is simply a legacy of that intelligence? These are all possibilities, and nothing has been concluded, with the exception of your conclusions based on your own limited human knowledge and prejudices against religion.

If we didn't know how cars came to be, had no history to study or anything to clearly indicate where cars originated, I could argue all day long that intelligence designed the original car, but you could never see that, if your understanding of intelligence was limited to the CPU chip found in the car. It would make no sense to you that a CPU chip could have created the car, and you would refuse to accept the concept. This analogy may seem odd, but it points out the fundamental flaw in your refutation of my theory. You continue to draw conclusions and make assumptions about the 'intelligence' based on your current human understanding of 'intelligence' and that is detrimental to open-mindedness on this topic.
 
"The theory of intelligent design is more than just some religiously-based falsehood, or myth, there are tangible physical and biological elements that point to an intelligent creator as being responsible for the origin of life."


No there are not. Just because life forms follow a pattern does not mean they were designed. There is far more evidence in favor of evolution and than there is for intelligent design.

There are plenty of naturally occurring patterns in nature. And absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any "intelligent designer".
 
Are these people mass produced somewhere?

I think we should close the plant.

I also think they should stop using science if they hate it so much!
 
"The theory of intelligent design is more than just some religiously-based falsehood, or myth, there are tangible physical and biological elements that point to an intelligent creator as being responsible for the origin of life."


No there are not. Just because life forms follow a pattern does not mean they were designed. There is far more evidence in favor of evolution and than there is for intelligent design.

There are plenty of naturally occurring patterns in nature. And absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any "intelligent designer".

There is absolutely NO scientific evidence in favor of evolution to support an argument for origin, as evolution doesn't even deal with origin. Consistent complex and predictable patterns do indeed result from intelligence alone, as best we can tell. There is nowhere in our known universe where randomness generates such complex and predictable patterns.The only logical evidence from observation, indicates intelligence is responsible for complex predictable patterns of design.
 
There is absolutely NO scientific evidence in favor of evolution to support an argument for origin, as evolution doesn't even deal with origin. Consistent complex and predictable patterns do indeed result from intelligence alone, as best we can tell. There is nowhere in our known universe where randomness generates such complex and predictable patterns.The only logical evidence from observation, indicates intelligence is responsible for complex predictable patterns of design.

It is the only explanation for the human finitely limited mind...

I am glad you know the difference between origin and evolution, it is a step most ID supporters can't grasp on message boards I have come across.:clink:
 
It is the only explanation for the human finitely limited mind...

I am glad you know the difference between origin and evolution, it is a step most ID supporters can't grasp on message boards I have come across.:clink:


Seems to be, it is the ET supporters who can't grasp the difference here. I have never heard a supporter of Intelligent Design theory confuse the two. ID doesn't refute ET because it doesn't deal with evolution, and ET doesn't refute ID because it doesn't deal with origin of life. The possibilities are... only one of the theories is valid, both of the theories are valid, or neither theory is valid.
 
Seems to be, it is the ET supporters who can't grasp the difference here. I have never heard a supporter of Intelligent Design theory confuse the two. ID doesn't refute ET because it doesn't deal with evolution, and ET doesn't refute ID because it doesn't deal with origin of life. The possibilities are... only one of the theories is valid, both of the theories are valid, or neither theory is valid.

Then you haven't been to the AOL message boards and other sites. You are lucky, they are the 6,000 year old group who think Id is the new answer to their ignorance.
 
Then you haven't been to the AOL message boards and other sites. You are lucky, they are the 6,000 year old group who think Id is the new answer to their ignorance.

Well it can't be as far fetched as Thor's thinking the Earth is hollow with faeries and gnomes running around inside. I've been debating this a long time, on various message boards, and it always seems to be Atheists who want to believe ET explains origin of life, in contradiction to ID. This is because of their personal faith, not science. We don't have any conclusive answers about our origin, or the origin of life, and ET doesn't even address origin.

I am an open-minded person. I can accept there is a possibility our origin is the result of some form of intelligence, whether that is a "god" is not relevant. I can also accept that we have evidence suggesting species evolved over time, which is a whole other theory altogether. I can't accept ignorant closed-mindedness, especially when it is done "in the name of science," as has been attempted here. The fact remains, we don't know how we originated, and will probably never know, and we should always keep an open mind when contemplating the various possibilities.
 
Did Thor live in Hawaii? We had to honk every time we went through a tunnel because of the faires or ancestors or whatever...I just liked the echo of the horn!
 
Well it can't be as far fetched as Thor's thinking the Earth is hollow with faeries and gnomes running around inside. I've been debating this a long time, on various message boards, and it always seems to be Atheists who want to believe ET explains origin of life, in contradiction to ID. This is because of their personal faith, not science. We don't have any conclusive answers about our origin, or the origin of life, and ET doesn't even address origin.

I am an open-minded person. I can accept there is a possibility our origin is the result of some form of intelligence, whether that is a "god" is not relevant. I can also accept that we have evidence suggesting species evolved over time, which is a whole other theory altogether. I can't accept ignorant closed-mindedness, especially when it is done "in the name of science," as has been attempted here. The fact remains, we don't know how we originated, and will probably never know, and we should always keep an open mind when contemplating the various possibilities.
Science works on proof, not possibilities. Flights of fancy are not science.
 
Science works on proof, not possibilities. Flights of fancy are not science.

I keep trying to explain that to Dixie too. I also keep trying to explain to him that there are all sorts of mysteries in the universe that science cannot explain nor is it intended to. Science is only intended as a tool for understanding the natural/material world. Since Dixie has a poor understanding of what science is, he doesn't seem to be able to grasp the limitations of science or at least he doesn't recognise them in any rational sense.

Debating Dixie on this issue is going to be like a pointless exercise in beating your head up against a wall. But for those of us with a science background it does provide us an oppurtunity to educate interested lay persons on the differance between real science and pop culture psuedoscience like ID and astrology.
 
The NWO Theocrats are beginning their assault on sciene and rationality by pretending ID is science. The New Age will be a dark age.
 
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