Mr. Spock Presents An Interesting Free Will Problem

AProudLefty

AProudLefty

Black Kitty Ain't Happy
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We are a part of the universe. That's a verifiable fact. We are rolling like those rolling stones. (Nope not talking about the band LOL)


Einstein said that God doesn't roll dice. Quantum Mechanics says we do. Are we a part of the Universe flowing through with no choice and free will, despite our perception?
 
Some people believe in 'The Big Bang' ... and 'The Big Crunch'. So the Universe is going to do whatever it's going to do.
But, in the meantime, yeah, I think we have Free Will. Dictated a lot by the 'genetic roll of the dice' that we inherit.
 
Its a matter of logic...…..If free does not exist in nature nor the will of mankind, if everything is based upon predestination …..does that not make the Laws of Physics "null and void"...…"useless"? Think about it..... all any law does is define the limits of what is accepted and what is unacceptable in nature or society. If there was no free will, random happenstance, or limits to physical reality.....there would be no limits placed upon society or nature to adhere to LAW.

Its simply comes down to the three basic laws of reasoned logic. The first law of LOGICAL THOUGHT. 1. The Law of the excluded middle (nothing can be true and false at the same instant)…...therefore it there is no free will the so called LAWS OF PHYSICS are superfluous and are non existent. But....because of the scientific method (observed, reproducible, consistent EXPERIMETATION with constant outcomes every time applied) we know that the laws of physics are indeed real and applicable. If a law exists that define limits then following the logical thought process....there must be random events that required the NEED for these laws to exist...i.e., choice.


When limits exist as declared and defined in the laws of physics....then free will exists within the opposing limits of these laws. There exists a random plethora of acceptable choices between the extreme limits of these laws....both in society and nature. Conclusion: You can breach the laws of society and still be confined within the laws of physics. Simply because something is possible does not make it mandatory or compulsory.

For any secular to argue that FREE WILL does not exist.....makes the argument for a Superior controlling force that directs both nature and man...i.e, GOD. This logical paradox simply drove Stephen Hawking bat shit crazy in the end and he finally snapped and declared, "EVERYTHING CAME FROM NOTHING...……." then he died. ;) Rejecting the only logical conclusion of this reality.....A superior force to nature must exist.

1st law of logic: You can't have your cake and eat it to.
 
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AProudLefty said:
Einstein said that God doesn't roll dice. Quantum Mechanics says we do. Are we a part of the Universe flowing through with no choice and free will, despite our perception?
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Free Will is an illusion. We follow our will, so we think we're free. But, our will is determined and we don't want to do anything other than our will. Consider, most people are total morons. Does anyone with a healthy brain really choose to be a total moron?
 
Bobb said:
Free Will is an illusion. We follow our will, so we think we're free. But, our will is determined and we don't want to do anything other than our will. Consider, most people are total morons. Does anyone with a healthy brain really choose to be a total moron?
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In your case ... the answer would be 'Yes'.
 
AProudLefty said:
We are a part of the universe. That's a verifiable fact. We are rolling like those rolling stones. (Nope not talking about the band LOL)

Einstein said that God doesn't roll dice. Quantum Mechanics says we do. Are we a part of the Universe flowing through with no choice and free will, despite our perception?
Click to expand...

Has someone taken away your ability to make a decision for yourself?
 
Bobb said:
Free Will is an illusion. We follow our will, so we think we're free. But, our will is determined and we don't want to do anything other than our will. Consider, most people are total morons. Does anyone with a healthy brain really choose to be a total moron?
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Yes. Only examine the number of people trying to prove their religion.
 
Is there a equation here? Of course we have free will, but those choices can only affect certain things. They can't change the laws of physics, or the course of the universe.
 
AProudLefty said:
dbee5e8b800eff204250eb94e59e3aa3.jpg


We are a part of the universe. That's a verifiable fact. We are rolling like those rolling stones. (Nope not talking about the band LOL)


Einstein said that God doesn't roll dice. Quantum Mechanics says we do. Are we a part of the Universe flowing through with no choice and free will, despite our perception?
Click to expand...

Loved that movie. BTW, Hawking said that not only does God play dice with the Universe, but he sometimes throws them where they can't be seen.

We have free will, dependent upon our gifts and flaws and circumstances -- and subject to the same laws of the Universe that all are subject to.
 
Dark Soul said:
Is there a equation here? Of course we have free will, but those choices can only affect certain things. They can't change the laws of physics, or the course of the universe.
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Indeed. If free will and random happenings do no occur in nature or society. Why do the laws of physics exist in nature as clearly proven via the scientific method of Objective, Reproducible, constant results via experimentation? Why do laws exist in society if man has no free will to brake them or obey them?

To argue that free will does not exist is to ignore the reality that surrounds you. Poverty exists because of free will. The Christ declared the ".....poor will be among you ALWAYS". Why....because of the random occurrences of both man and nature. Man was born with the ability to make free will choice/decisions...these every day decisions effects life....some people are poor because of illness, injury or just plan laziness....there are things that can't be legislated away.

The God in the Bible certainly as the omnipotent and omnipresent creater can PREDISTINE or PLAN for things to happen along a time line....but that does not infer that no free will exists in either nature or society. God is God.....He makes plans in the past....waits for the future to become the present and then MINIPULATES the natural to achieve His plan. Who is going to stop Him?

The Scriptures explain this.

"Remember the former things (the past) of old; For I am God, and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me,

Declaring the end from the beginning (the future from the past), and from ancient times .....THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT YET DONE (inferring He is planning something in the future), saying MY COUNCIL SHALL STAND, I WILL DO MY PLEASURE." Isaiah 46:9-10

Isaiah goes on to reveal how God called a king from the east to do His bidding of a thing He has promised in the past.....that nation will EXECUTE MY COUNCIL (what God had planned in the past will be put into effect on the day of God's choosing.......God manipulates mankind and nature to do His council when He wants...who is going to stop Him?

Isaiah 46:9-11 Explains how God PREDISTIANES HIS COUNCIL....and still allow both man and nature freedom to abide with the laws that He has established for this realm of reality. The laws of physics and the Laws of Society.....are to be obeyed, but randomness happens depending upon both natural happenstance and the free will choices of mankind.

You can't blame God if you decided to build a breach front house and it was destroyed via natural a event......YOU CHOOSE to build there (a free will choice). God has no respect of person.
 
Dark Soul said:
Is there a equation here? Of course we have free will, but those choices can only affect certain things. They can't change the laws of physics, or the course of the universe.
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Yet some laws of physics have been falsified. That changes them. Just what is the 'course of the universe'? Is it going somewhere?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Loved that movie. BTW, Hawking said that not only does God play dice with the Universe, but he sometimes throws them where they can't be seen.

We have free will, dependent upon our gifts and flaws and circumstances -- and subject to the same laws of the Universe that all are subject to.
Click to expand...

Just what ARE the 'laws of the universe'? Do you mean science? They are not laws. They are theories. Why should Hawking be right? Has he seen these dice? If they are being thrown where you can't see them, how would he know they are even being thrown? If he is referring to a God throwing dice, why was he an atheist?
 
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