National Right to Work Act Petition

[WinterBorn]

The union mentality? You mean the belief that every worker has the right to a fair wage, reasonable work hours, benefits that allow raising and supporting a family, a level of dignity every citizen in a civil society deserves and the 'privilege' to return home at the end of the day on your feet, instead of in a pine box?

And the only way any of that happens is with a union?

 

[Bfgrn]

Drawn in? As a witness perhaps. But surely you did not believe that a salesman (with no authority whatsoever) making a call on a customer could be held liable for an accident on a jobsite simply because he was there?

Yes, drawn in. It was my understanding that I was considered a competent person on a job site.

And stick you condescending slander of my profession. You really are an arrogant ass. I had the authority to leave my house without reporting in or punching a clock, plan and manage my time and return home without any 'authority' figure looking over my shoulder or any authority figure telling me what to do.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, drawn in. It was my understanding that I was considered a competent person on a job site.

And stick you condescending slander of my profession. You really are an arrogant ass. I had the authority to leave my house without reporting in or punching a clock, plan and manage my time and return home without any 'authority' figure looking over my shoulder or any authority figure telling me what to do.

What did I say that was condescending? I made no remarks at all about your profession. Maybe you should be a little less defensive, especially when you seem fond of making disparaging remarks about others.

 

[WinterBorn]

The union mentality? You mean the belief that every worker has the right to a fair wage, reasonable work hours, benefits that allow raising and supporting a family, a level of dignity every citizen in a civil society deserves and the 'privilege' to return home at the end of the day on your feet, instead of in a pine box?

And what of the workers with almost zero skills doing assembly line work that could be replaced by robots and thereby increasing the efficiency of the entire operation? Should those guys be making $25+ an hour?

 

[Bfgrn]

What did I say that was condescending? I made no remarks at all about your profession. Maybe you should be a little less defensive, especially when you seem fond of making disparaging remarks about others.

Really?

QUOTE - WinterBorn
"But surely you did not believe that a salesman (with no authority whatsoever)"

The irony is you are totally obtuse to your arrogance.

 

[WinterBorn]

Really?

QUOTE - WinterBorn
"But surely you did not believe that a salesman (with no authority whatsoever)"

The irony is you are totally obtuse to your arrogance.

WTF? How is that condescending?

You said you worked in sales, and were making calls on customers. That makes you a salesman.

You were not working on the jobsite or for any of the companies that were doing the work. That means you had absolutely no authority to make any changes in the worksite.




I was not condescending at all. You, apparently, have some issues with your job or are far too defensive & sensitive for a debate site.

 

[Bfgrn]

And what of the workers with almost zero skills doing assembly line work that could be replaced by robots and thereby increasing the efficiency of the entire operation? Should those guys be making $25+ an hour?

Most of those people have been replaced. And if you look at the starting wages of new hires in the auto industry, unions have made HUGE concessions. BTW, did anyone hold a gun to the temple of management when they signed the contracts?

My brother in law is a lathe operator. He worked for a company that went out of business not because of the union, but because there were more office personnel on the floor than workers.

Your outrage over 'unfair' wages needs to be tempered by outrage over workers being cheated, abused or the ones that had their lives extinguished.

 

[Bfgrn]

WTF? How is that condescending?

You said you worked in sales, and were making calls on customers. That makes you a salesman.

You were not working on the jobsite or for any of the companies that were doing the work. That means you had absolutely no authority to make any changes in the worksite.




I was not condescending at all. You, apparently, have some issues with your job or are far too defensive & sensitive for a debate site.

Listen, I've explained this plenty of times. You need to think about and comprehend what MY UNDERSTANDING of a competent person was.

 

[WinterBorn]

Listen, I've explained this plenty of times. You need to think about and comprehend what MY UNDERSTANDING of a competent person was.

Ok, the post you quoted had nothing to do with your understanding of the Competent Person laws, and everything to do with your claiming I was condescending towards your profession.

You made the claim "And stick you condescending slander of my profession.".

I explained to you what I said, since reading comprehension seems to be something you occasionally need help with.

As far as your understanding of your liability, the first step in any competent person training is the definition of the term. And the fact that you would claim that the competent person laws were passed to create a scapegoat shows your hostility towards companies and your own disdain for solid safety practices that do not involve unions.

 

[WinterBorn]

Most of those people have been replaced. And if you look at the starting wages of new hires in the auto industry, unions have made HUGE concessions. BTW, did anyone hold a gun to the temple of management when they signed the contracts?.

A gun to their head? No. But a gun to the head of their business? Yes.

And if that is the route you want to take, did anyone hold a gun to the head of the workers to make them stay on a job that abused them or cheated them?

My brother in law is a lathe operator. He worked for a company that went out of business not because of the union, but because there were more office personnel on the floor than workers.

If you are going to dismiss my personal anecdotes, you sorta have to avoid using your own.

Your outrage over 'unfair' wages needs to be tempered by outrage over workers being cheated, abused or the ones that had their lives extinguished.

My outrage for workers being abused or killed is enough that I have dedicated my career to seeing that it doesn't happen. What about you?

 

[Bfgrn]

Ok, the post you quoted had nothing to do with your understanding of the Competent Person laws, and everything to do with your claiming I was condescending towards your profession.

You made the claim "And stick you condescending slander of my profession.".

I explained to you what I said, since reading comprehension seems to be something you occasionally need help with.

As far as your understanding of your liability, the first step in any competent person training is the definition of the term. And the fact that you would claim that the competent person laws were passed to create a scapegoat shows your hostility towards companies and your own disdain for solid safety practices that do not involve unions.

POSTS (plural) I have made explained more than once MY (mis)understanding of the competent person responsibilities. I gave you credit for explaining it.

I am strongly for worker safety, and I never claimed unions are the only mechanism. You like to question my comprehension...better find a mirror.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

no, not sarcasm.....merely recognizing that once you've bought into the union mentality your mind can never be changed.....

Another nice strawman.

 

[WinterBorn]

POSTS (plural) I have made explained more than once MY (mis)understanding of the competent person responsibilities. I gave you credit for explaining it.

I am strongly for worker safety, and I never claimed unions are the only mechanism. You like to question my comprehension...better find a mirror.

And I see that you are still dodging the "And stick you condescending slander of my profession.".

If you never claimed unions were the only mechanism, you have certainly slandered or dismissed any other method of keeping workers safe.

 

[Bfgrn]

A gun to their head? No. But a gun to the head of their business? Yes.

And if that is the route you want to take, did anyone hold a gun to the head of the workers to make them stay on a job that abused them or cheated them?



If you are going to dismiss my personal anecdotes, you sorta have to avoid using your own.



My outrage for workers being abused or killed is enough that I have dedicated my career to seeing that it doesn't happen. What about you?

A wage is never sanction to abuse or cheat someone. No one who piously 'claims' to a dedication to prevent and abate human abuse or extermination thinks or talks about the very people he claims to be dedicated to protect like you do.

Try your act on someone who just fell off the back of a turnip truck.


“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

 

[WinterBorn]

A wage is never sanction to abuse or cheat someone. No one who piously 'claims' to a dedication to prevent and abate human abuse or extermination thinks or talks about the very people he claims to be dedicated to protect like you do.

I have not made any disparaging remarks about the people I have worked for years to protect.

Your insults do not replace actual facts for a debate.

Try the Junior High debate websites, where such nonsense might be accepted in place of honest discussion.

 

[Bfgrn]

And I see that you are still dodging the "And stick you condescending slander of my profession.".

If you never claimed unions were the only mechanism, you have certainly slandered or dismissed any other method of keeping workers safe.

You comment was arrogant and dismissive. The fact that you are obtuse to it doesn't make it any less arrogant and dismissive.

WOW...again your arrogance takes over your ability to comprehend. It was YOU who has been dismissive of the role unions play and have played in worker safety.

 

[WinterBorn]

You comment was arrogant and dismissive. The fact that you are obtuse to it doesn't make it any less arrogant and dismissive.

Arrogant? WTF? I stated that you were a salesman without any authority on the jobsite. How is that arrogant?

Were you on the jobsite as a salesman? Did you have any authority on the jobsite? Answer those questions and then tell me how I was arrogant or how I slandered your profession.

WOW...again your arrogance takes over your ability to comprehend. It was YOU who has been dismissive of the role unions play and have played in worker safety.

The "have played" part I have never denied at all.

As far as the role they play now, I have carefully explained my objections to unions. Including the fact that a union caused at least one death because they treat the company like the enemy.

I have not said all unions are bad. In fact, I seem to recall surrendering on the miner's union topic. The fact that you are so arrogant as to demand that everything you say be accepted without question, while you demean and insult anyone with a differing opinion shows your lack of compassion or your closed-mindedness.

 

[Bfgrn]

Arrogant? WTF? I stated that you were a salesman without any authority on the jobsite. How is that arrogant?

Were you on the jobsite as a salesman? Did you have any authority on the jobsite? Answer those questions and then tell me how I was arrogant or how I slandered your profession.



The "have played" part I have never denied at all.

As far as the role they play now, I have carefully explained my objections to unions. Including the fact that a union caused at least one death because they treat the company like the enemy.

I have not said all unions are bad. In fact, I seem to recall surrendering on the miner's union topic. The fact that you are so arrogant as to demand that everything you say be accepted without question, while you demean and insult anyone with a differing opinion shows your lack of compassion or your closed-mindedness.

As a salesman of a job site, what do you believe my role is once a sale is made?

Yes, 'surrender' is the proper term...you did so grudgingly when confronted with facts...a Freudian slip I surmise...LOL

I have compassion and an intolerance for human beings being abused or extinguished. I don't get that feeling from your words and take.

 

[WinterBorn]

As a salesman of a job site, what do you believe my role is once a sale is made?.

Oh, so the fact that I did not mention your skills at service after the sale, I am slandering your profession and being condescending? Now that is being far to sensitive. I only used the description of your profession that you have used. And only because it clearly showed you would have no liability at all.

Yes, 'surrender' is the proper term...you did so grudgingly when confronted with facts...a Freudian slip I surmise...LOL.

A Freudian slip? You think I surrendered out of some freudian slip? lmao And you accuse me of arrogance and a condescending attitude? Hello?

I have compassion and an intolerance for human beings being abused or extinguished. I don't get that feeling from your words and take.

Then you are not paying attention, and that is not my problem. I have spent years working in the field, and on the road, to make sure our workers are safe. Many times I have had to argue with them, or threaten to discipline or even fire them to get them to follow the safety standards. I have spent untold hours training myself and our workers so that they would have the proper knowledge. You post on a website. I sacrifice time with my family and spend hours upon hours actually working for the safety of employees. But you "don't get that feeling from [my] words". lol And yet, I am the one who is arrogant and condescending.

What I get from your words is that, even when you are shown to be wrong, you refuse to admit it and continue to attack and insult. What I get from your words is that you hear what you want to hear, not what is actually said.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have compassion and an intolerance for human beings being abused or extinguished. I don't get that feeling from your words and take.

Funny that you get all defensive about your job, but you seem to have no trouble slandering, maligning, and insulting someone else about how they do their job.

I guess its ok for you to insult people, because you........uh.........why was it that its ok for you to insult people and talk about their profession in such a condescending manner again?