Negotiations Continue to Go Nowhere as Europe Bashes Head Against Wall [Ukraine War] | Simplicius

Scott

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Just finished reading a new article on the war in Ukraine from a substacker I've come to admire on the topic, Simplicius. It can be seen here:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/negotiations-continue-to-go-nowhere

Quoting from the introduction and conclusion of the article:


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The next go-around of negotiations has concluded today between the Ukrainian and American sides in Riyadh. It’ll be the Russians’ turn with the Americans in the same place tomorrow, where Ukraine’s positions from today’s meeting will be conveyed.

The most fascinating part of these developments is that on their eve, Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff made a number of compelling statements on his media circuit. It provided some of the first glimpses of a real possibility of the US reconciling with Russia’s operative framework of the war. Most significantly, he implied that the US is on board with Russia taking not just Crimea, but all the newly annexed regions:


[video interview of Witkoff in original article]

In fact, Witkoff demonstrated such an emotional intelligence and sensitivity to the Russian cause, that some commentators have even gone as far as noting ‘this is the first time a US administration has viewed Russians as truly human.’ Maybe Witkoff has an affinity for his ancestral homeland—both of his grandparents were born in Russia.

Witkoff demonstrated this in his talk with Tucker Carlson, wherein he called for Russia and the US to work together—a proposal that strikes so discordantly against previous US approaches that it’s nearly surreal to hear:


[video interview of Witkoff with Tucker Carlson in original article]

But the moment that stole the show and aroused eye-watering resentment from the war-hawk faction was the following, wherein Witkoff relayed an unexpected level of commiseration between Putin and Trump, stating that Putin prayed for Trump after the shooting, and commissioned a portrait for him as a gift:

[video interview of Witkoff on Russia's RT in original article]

Such things lead one to believe there is some hope, after all, in Russia and the US resolving things in an amicable way. Of particular interest were simultaneous reports that Russia would allegedly end the conflict if the currently demanded regions were recognized, but with one big kicker:

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Putin wants Trump to formally recognise all land Russia has taken in Ukraine, Kommersant reports​

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Source: https://archive.ph/43mZI

The kicker?

In return for recognition and if it happened "in the near future", Kommersant said Putin would undertake not to lay claim to the Ukrainian port city of Odesa and other Ukrainian territory.
Keep in mind Kommersant is not a ‘tabloid’ or rag, but one of Russia’s most respected publications. So, if we are to believe the claim above, Putin is essentially giving the West and Ukraine a short window of time to accept the current territories, or risk having Odessa be included in the official demands.

This obviously fully goes along with Putin’s previous more ‘vague’ statements, echoed by the likes of Lavrov et al, about how Ukraine’s terms would progressively worsen over time, should they refuse to accept Russia’s current ‘generous’ ones.


[snip]

Now we wait to see what tomorrow’s meeting with Russia will bring. Until then, the spring thaws are starting, and both sides have big plans for coming offensives, with new ‘rumors’ suggesting Zelensky wants to organize another broad-fronted assay sometime in April to show the world the AFU’s still got its legs, and to preemptively steal the thunder of impending Russian offensives. With the political pressures heating up, it’s sure to become a pivotal time for the war.

**
 
I pay attention to Simplicious.

There are some who think that the Russians are so happy to find the Americans talking again and maybe willing to leave the Europeans on their own that they will do another very generous deal like Istanbul after some Trump Charm.

Even though the Russians have been saying for over a year that those days are over.

I expect them to largely stick to their demanded terms of capitulation from the losers.
 
The sense that I get is that the Russians intend to finish taking their 4 oblasts, shut down the parties in Kiev, and drive their army towards Kiev this summer.....a crushing blow that will take the fight out of the Ukrainians....something that a lot of Russians have been waiting for for a long time.

Maybe they can be talked out of it, with the proper deal, as unlikely as that is to happen.
 
The Imperial Empire has no cards to play, as someone on my grapevine the other day said the Russians are not interested in our carrots, and they can handle our sticks.

"Fuck your sanctions, they hurt you more than they hurt us"
The Russians in recent days.
 
I pay attention to Simplicious.

There are some who think that the Russians are so happy to find the Americans talking again and maybe willing to leave the Europeans on their own that they will do another very generous deal like Istanbul.

Even though the Russians have been saying for over a year that those days are over.

I expect them to largely stick to their demanded terms of capitulation from the losers.

Agreed, though I think it's pretty important that Putin has said that if Ukraine acts now, they will let them keep Odessa and other regions. Again from Simplicius article:
**
Keep in mind Kommersant is not a ‘tabloid’ or rag, but one of Russia’s most respected publications. So, if we are to believe the claim above, Putin is essentially giving the West and Ukraine a short window of time to accept the current territories, or risk having Odessa be included in the official demands.

This obviously fully goes along with Putin’s previous more ‘vague’ statements, echoed by the likes of Lavrov et al, about how Ukraine’s terms would progressively worsen over time, should they refuse to accept Russia’s current ‘generous’ ones. But recall that in the last report, we’ve already mentioned how Ukraine is getting increasingly antsy over potential ‘secret talks’ between Putin and Trump on the Odessa bargaining chip:

NYT Screenshot Kyiv fears.png


As Forbes further notes, the Kommersant journalist claims Putin said “and other regions” besides Odessa, which could obviously point to Kharkov and the like. But Russia could change its mind and decide to close this window short:

However, the point at which Russia is ready to abandon its claims to Odessa and other territories with the recognition of the Crimea, the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions may also move, the correspondent notes. "They don't have time to dig in," Putin said at the meeting.
For those interested in the full lowdown on Putin’s statements, it came during the ‘closed meeting’ of the XXXIV Congress of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs (RSPP), which Kommersant's special correspondent Andrey Kolesnikov attended, and gave his paraphrased transcription of: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/7586520.

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Full article:

Another thing I find interesting is that the New York Times has apparently changed the name of its "Kyiv fears" article as well. As can be seen from Simplicius' archived link, it now reads "Trump Discussion With Putin to Focus on What Ukraine Will Lose" instead of "Kyiv Fears Trump will Cede Control of Odesa to Russia". Perhaps the New York Times wanted to downplay the fact that Putin is giving Ukraine the chance to hold on to it if it starts serious peace negotiations now?
 
The sense that I get is that the Russians intend to finish taking their 4 oblasts, shut down the parties in Kiev, and drive their army towards Kiev this summer.....a crushing blow that will take the fight out of the Ukrainians....something that a lot of Russians have been waiting for for a long time.

Maybe they can be talked out of it, with the proper deal, as unlikely as that is to happen.

Yes, Putin just said that if Ukraine gets serious about peace negotiations now, it can pretty much keep everything it doesn't yet have. But Putin's made it clear that this time window is short- Ukraine doesn't have time to dig in.
 
Agreed, though I think it's pretty important that Putin has said that if Ukraine acts now, they will let them keep Odessa and other regions. Again from Simplicius article:
**
Keep in mind Kommersant is not a ‘tabloid’ or rag, but one of Russia’s most respected publications. So, if we are to believe the claim above, Putin is essentially giving the West and Ukraine a short window of time to accept the current territories, or risk having Odessa be included in the official demands.

This obviously fully goes along with Putin’s previous more ‘vague’ statements, echoed by the likes of Lavrov et al, about how Ukraine’s terms would progressively worsen over time, should they refuse to accept Russia’s current ‘generous’ ones. But recall that in the last report, we’ve already mentioned how Ukraine is getting increasingly antsy over potential ‘secret talks’ between Putin and Trump on the Odessa bargaining chip:

View attachment 46539


As Forbes further notes, the Kommersant journalist claims Putin said “and other regions” besides Odessa, which could obviously point to Kharkov and the like. But Russia could change its mind and decide to close this window short:

However, the point at which Russia is ready to abandon its claims to Odessa and other territories with the recognition of the Crimea, the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions may also move, the correspondent notes. "They don't have time to dig in," Putin said at the meeting.
For those interested in the full lowdown on Putin’s statements, it came during the ‘closed meeting’ of the XXXIV Congress of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs (RSPP), which Kommersant's special correspondent Andrey Kolesnikov attended, and gave his paraphrased transcription of: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/7586520.

**
Full article:

Another thing I find interesting is that the New York Times has apparently changed the name of its "Kyiv fears" article as well. As can be seen from Simplicius' archived link, it now reads "Trump Discussion With Putin to Focus on What Ukraine Will Lose" instead of "Kyiv Fears Trump will Cede Control of Odesa to Russia". Perhaps the New York Times wanted to downplay the fact that Putin is giving Ukraine the chance to hold on to it if it starts serious peace negotiations now?
They might be willing, though I think that most people still expect that the Russians will demand that Odessa and others will be according to the peace deal be doing a referendum....do they want to be Russia or do they want to be Ukraine.

The Duran the other day was talking about recent Russian chatter that Ukraine will be allowed to become some kind of a federalized state, where the regions have broad autonomy....and in that case Odessa and a few other places will be allowed to stay in Ukraine.
 
Then of course there is the matter of what to do about all of the terrorism towards Russia from the Banderaites that will certainly take place after the peace deal is signed....I have heard no one talking about that.
 
The Imperial Empire has no cards to play, as someone on my grapevine the other day said the Russians are not interested in our carrots, and they can handle our sticks.

"Fuck your sanctions, they hurt you more than they hurt us"
The Russians in recent days.

From Simplicius article that I quoted in the first post of this thread, I'd say that they are interested in U.S. carrots, but they have to be big and plump. Same with Ukraine. I don't think they care much about what the non Ukraine European nations think too much at this point.
 
They might be willing, though I think that most people still expect that the Russians will demand that Odessa and others will be according to the peace deal be doing a referendum....do they want to be Russia or do they want to be Ukraine.

The Duran the other day was talking about recent Russian chatter that Ukraine will be allowed to become some kind of a federalized state, where the regions have broad autonomy....and in that case Odessa and a few other places will be allowed to stay in Ukraine.

Alright, yes, it might be conditional on Ukraine becoming federated. The longer Ukraine waits, though, the more likely it'll probably just be annexed to Russia when this is done. As Simplicius said, "This obviously fully goes along with Putin’s previous more ‘vague’ statements, echoed by the likes of Lavrov et al, about how Ukraine’s terms would progressively worsen over time, should they refuse to accept Russia’s current ‘generous’ ones."
 
Then of course there is the matter of what to do about all of the terrorism towards Russia from the Banderaites that will certainly take place after the peace deal is signed....I have heard no one talking about that.

I think it'd be best to focus on a peace deal first.
 
Ukrainian terrorism almost has to be a part of the peace deal after all that the Russians have seen from them, over years.
Well, I'm sure Russia will bring it up if they feel the need to. So far, it seems the main focus is where the new borders will be, and even that all depends on when Ukraine finally makes it's way to the serious negotiation table.
 
Well, I'm sure Russia will bring it up if they feel the need to. So far, it seems the main focus is where the new borders will be, and even that all depends on when Ukraine finally makes it's way to the serious negotiation table.
The main point is what the main point has been for a decade, the end of NATO's aggression against Russia.

The Americans still not getting it perhaps are focused on borders.
 
This charade that America is negotiating deal between Ukraine and Russia immediately runs into the fact that though it is a proxy war...we are using other armies to fight it....this is a war between Russia and NATO....and since the Europeans barely matter this is a war between Russia and America.

And that we demanded it, we demanded to assault Russia, we refused over a lot of years to negotiate a settlement to NATO aggression.

We lost, and Trump is desperate to avoid admitting that we lost.......how far the Russians are willing to let him skate with that we have yet to see.
 
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