Obama didn't know how he'd vote on Iraq in 2004

If you read the full context of the conversation he was having, you would know that your statement above is dishonest at best. He has never flip-flopped or waivered on Iraq, and his own feelings toward the decision to invade.

It's really a grasp, WRL. You can't be this desperate, this early in the campaign.

Those are his exact words, and I've already explained I could have cropped the statement to make it sound a lot worse, I was fair and included the entire quote. And wow, I didn't know Obama once supported a 'surge' in Iraq... Also how exactly is a direct quote, equate to dishonesty?
 
""What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made"

Can't be any clearer than that, unless you've had a lobotomy (I don't rule that out, btw)

Russert was asking him specifically to criticize Kerry & Edwards, which is why Obama started with the response that he gave. That's what I mean by contextually. You can argue that this was weak for him to do, but it is impossible to be an intelligent human being, read the full context of his remarks, and say that he "flip flopped."

I realize that you are not an intelligent human being, but try.
 
Sorry I could have snipped that quote to simply say...

Barack Obama when asked in 2004 if he would have voted for the Iraq war said...

"What would I have done? I don't know"
That would have been clipping the quote, which I could have done, and it sounds a lot worse, and he did say it, but I was fair and included the entire quote. Clinton just bungled the delivery trying to claim he was opposed to the war as well. I just don't see us having the same problem.


If you're concerned about flip flopping, I don't have a freaking clue why you are supporting McCain. Who, outside of Willard Romney, is the biggest flip flopper in presidential primary history. Immigration, taxes, torture, the religious rightwing, Roe v. Wade, etc.
 
Illinois State Senator Barak Obama, October 2002, Federal Plaza in Chicago.

"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

On Saddam Hussein

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You Want a Fight, President Bush?

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm

Well said indeed.
 
LMAO....!

BAC...you are easily lead thru mis-information...the 'socialist mantra' and policy...Obama is a 'flaming Socialist'...he will twist and shout mo' betta than 'Chubby Checker' to send his false propoganda to the millions of 'asleep at the wheel' sheepel'...enough said eh'?
 
BAC...you are easily lead thru mis-information...the 'socialist mantra' and policy...Obama is a 'flaming Socialist'...he will twist and shout mo' betta than 'Chubby Checker' to send his false propoganda to the millions of 'asleep at the wheel' sheepel'...enough said eh'?

You voted for Bush.

Enough said, eh?
 
You voted for Kerry, 'nuff said eh?

No I didn't .. and I'm REAL sure John Kerry history will not attach the devastating damge that has happened to this nation since Bush has been in office to Kerry.

Nice try though.

Oh wait .. you voted for Bush as well.

Enough said, eh?
 
If you're concerned about flip flopping, I don't have a freaking clue why you are supporting McCain. Who, outside of Willard Romney, is the biggest flip flopper in presidential primary history. Immigration, taxes, torture, the religious rightwing, Roe v. Wade, etc.

No, he got his ass kicked on taxes and immigrations. Sometimes when you get your ass kicked you are forced to change.

How is he changing on Roe vs. Wade?
 
No, he got his ass kicked on taxes and immigrations. Sometimes when you get your ass kicked you are forced to change.

How is he changing on Roe vs. Wade?

John McCain, circa 1999:

"I'd love to see a point where it is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary," McCain told the Chronicle in an article published Friday. "But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations."

John McCain, circa 2006:

STEPHANOPOULOS: So is President Bush, yet that hasn’t advanced in the six years he’s been in office. What are you going to do to advance a constitutional amendment that President Bush hasn’t done?

MCCAIN: I don’t think a constitutional amendment is probably going to take place, but I do believe that it’s very likely or possible that the Supreme Court should — could overturn Roe v. Wade, which would then return these decisions to the states, which I support.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you’d be for that?

MCCAIN: Yes, because I’m a federalist. Just as I believe that the issue of gay marriage should be decided by the states, so do I believe that we would be better off by having Roe v. Wade return to the states. And I don’t believe the Supreme Court should be legislating in the way that they did on Roe v. Wade.
 
No I didn't .. and I'm REAL sure John Kerry history will not attach the devastating damge that has happened to this nation since Bush has been in office to Kerry.

Nice try though.

Oh wait .. you voted for Bush as well.

Enough said, eh?
Not that time I didn't.
 
You're opinion is drown-on-your-own-spit stupid.
Nanny-nanny poo-poo!

Kerry was the only person dumber than Bush and his "plan" for the war was equally stupid with 10K more troops. It is always sad when the educated are stupid and the only other choice got worse grades than Bush in the same school.

The only person willing to spend all that money on the war, not raise taxes on the "middle class" and open up new give away programs and call themselves fiscally responsible.

The man was a joke, and lost to the least popular President in a long while. Your opinion on this is just sad.
 
Nanny-nanny poo-poo!

Kerry was the only person dumber than Bush and his "plan" for the war was equally stupid with 10K more troops. It is always sad when the educated are stupid and the only other choice got worse grades than Bush in the same school.

The only person willing to spend all that money on the war, not raise taxes on the "middle class" and open up new give away programs and call themselves fiscally responsible.

The man was a joke, and lost to the least popular President in a long while. Your opinion on this is just sad.

Trying to equate Kerry with Bush is uber-partisan sad to the nth degree.

C'mon, get real.
 
Trying to equate Kerry with Bush is uber-partisan sad to the nth degree.

C'mon, get real.
I think they are both stupid. And trying to pretend that his "war plan" was anything other than more of what we were doing with 10K more troops is partisan to the nth degree and really sad.

The man was so worthless he couldn't beat a President that was below 50% polling for most of the election year. That is fricking sad. That is crap for a candidate.
 
I think they are both stupid. And trying to pretend that his "war plan" was anything other than more of what we were doing with 10K more troops is partisan to the nth degree and really sad.

The man was so worthless he couldn't beat a President that was below 50% polling for most of the election year. That is fricking sad. That is crap for a candidate.

You're not even remotely close to the damage caused by the worst president in American history. There is no way Kerry could have been worse.
 
You're not even remotely close to the damage caused by the worst president in American history. There is no way Kerry could have been worse.
We'll never know, he IMO was the only one crappy enough to lose to Bush. Well, Dean would have lost too...

I dunno, I took what I thought was right action and voted for neither.
 
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