Pearl Harbor and the Deceptions of War.

ill have to read into this when i have some time. I'm reluctant to believe that our governement knew about the attack and let it happen just for an excuse to enter WW2.
 
Chapdog said:
ill have to read into this when i have some time. I'm reluctant to believe that our governement knew about the attack and let it happen just for an excuse to enter WW2.
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Do you believe our government sacrificed nearly 60,ooo lives of US soldiers for the lie of the Gulf of Tonkin to get further involved in that war?

Do you believe our government sacrificed tens of thousands of dead and wounded US soldiers for lies and deceptions that got us involed in the failure of Iraq.

Do you believe the Maine was blown up by the Spanish?

Our government has a long ass record of lies and deceit to get America involved in all kinds of misadventures.

Everything I post on this issue is from the historical record.
 
Churchill is the guy who bombed Dresden for no other reason than pure spite. 200,000 were killed that day from incineration and suffocation.
 
Threedee said:
Churchill is the guy who bombed Dresden for no other reason than pure spite. 200,000 were killed that day from incineration and suffocation.
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True, but it doesn't change a single fact in this issue .. nor does the fact that FDR is the guy who nuked Japan .. twice .. didn't have to either time.

Doesn't change the facts.
 
Thats our country. taken from Indians, build by slaves, bullies of the world. We need to have our 5acre spreads, 3 boats, atv's, 2 SUV's, vacations every year.
 
Chapdog said:
Thats our country. taken from Indians, build by slaves, bullies of the world. We need to have our 5acre spreads, 3 boats, atv's, 2 SUV's, vacations every year.
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But you know what? As an American Indian I have adapted to the white man's way of life and like it quite a lot. I don't own 5 acres, just two. I only have 2 boats and one SUV. We are planning a vacation this year but have been saving for 2 years for it.......taking the kid to Disney World. I've never been to Florida and am not looking forward to it. My vacations take me West.....but I digress.

Point is......America, with all of its flaws and past mistakes (and there will be future ones too) is still the best place in the world to live.
 
leaningright said:
But you know what? As an American Indian I have adapted to the white man's way of life and like it quite a lot. I don't own 5 acres, just two. I only have 2 boats and one SUV. We are planning a vacation this year but have been saving for 2 years for it.......taking the kid to Disney World. I've never been to Florida and am not looking forward to it. My vacations take me West.....but I digress.

Point is......America, with all of its flaws and past mistakes (and there will be future ones too) is still the best place in the world to live.
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Tip for you on Orlando. Last time I went got Hyatt Grand regency (look it up, it blows away the Disney props) for about $100 a night on price line compared to $300+ for a Disney prop. Its just a little tricky but if you go to betterbidding.com and do some research you can figure out what hotels you will get from your bid.
 
leaningright said:
Thanks.
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NP, now the tickets for the parks... aint no deals for them. I like Epcot and Animal kingdom the best for Disney. I also like Universal as you can take your drinks in line and there is a cool Irish bar near the mummy ride. Island of adventure is half under construction right now but always good for thrill rides.
 
leaningright said:
But you know what? As an American Indian I have adapted to the white man's way of life and like it quite a lot. I don't own 5 acres, just two. I only have 2 boats and one SUV. We are planning a vacation this year but have been saving for 2 years for it.......taking the kid to Disney World. I've never been to Florida and am not looking forward to it. My vacations take me West.....but I digress.

Point is......America, with all of its flaws and past mistakes (and there will be future ones too) is still the best place in the world to live.
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As someone who shares the blood of the Ogala and is also black, I do not see what we exist in today as "the white man's way of life." Not "white", and not "man". This society is far more civil and sane than the societies of the Trail of Tears and slavery .. but it is still an evolving society .. because America is better, but still flawed.

We stand on the shoulders of far more then white men, and we should never forget the pain, anguish, and contributions of our ancestors .. in fact, it should drive our evolution.
 
blackascoal said:
Do you believe our government sacrificed nearly 60,ooo lives of US soldiers for the lie of the Gulf of Tonkin to get further involved in that war?

LBJ was an exceptional douchebag, though

Do you believe our government sacrificed tens of thousands of dead and wounded US soldiers for lies and deceptions that got us involed in the failure of Iraq.

Again, more like stupidity

Do you believe the Maine was blown up by the Spanish?

The Maine was probably sunk by coal exploding, but the Spanish may have placed mines.

Our government has a long ass record of lies and deceit to get America involved in all kinds of misadventures.

Everything I post on this issue is from the historical record.
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.
 
Threedee said:
LBJ was an exceptional douchebag, though
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Johnson was no more a "douchebag" than George Bush .. both of them, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, or anyother American president.

Threedee said:
Again, more like stupidity
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The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on stupidity .. it was a drawn out plan to invade for profit .. and it worked.

Threedee said:
The Maine was probably sunk by coal exploding, but the Spanish may have placed mines
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If you're that bad at history you really shouldn't get into conversations about history.
 
blackascoal said:
If you're that bad at history you really shouldn't get into conversations about history.
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As with other technical events, there can be no proof of what actually sunk the USS Maine, but the view most accepted is that coal dust ignited and caused an explosion (a common problem of the time).

Now, despite all of this, the US still blamed the Spanish for "attacking the Maine." Even if it struck mines, that wouldn't have been an "attack" either. I don't see how you got that out of my statement. I simply gave the two most commonly cited possibilities as to how the Maine sunk.

Now, I know that you believe someone in govt. sunk the coal, but as per usual, there is no evidence to your conspiracy theory.
 
Threedee said:
As with other technical events, there can be no proof of what actually sunk the USS Maine, but the view most accepted is that coal dust ignited and caused an explosion (a common problem of the time).

Now, despite all of this, the US still blamed the Spanish for "attacking the Maine." Even if it struck mines, that wouldn't have been an "attack" either. I don't see how you got that out of my statement. I simply gave the two most commonly cited possibilities as to how the Maine sunk.

Now, I know that you believe someone in govt. sunk the coal, but as per usual, there is no evidence to your conspiracy theory.
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"Belief" doesn't have shit to do with it.

At 9:40 on the evening of 15 February, a terrible explosion on board Maine shattered the stillness in Havana Harbor. Later investigations revealed that more than five tons of powder charges for the vessel's six and ten-inch guns ignited, virtually obliterating the forward third of the ship. The remaining wreckage rapidly settled to the bottom of the harbor. Most of Maine's crew were sleeping or resting in the enlisted quarters in the forward part of the ship when the explosion occurred. Two hundred and sixty-six men lost their lives as a result of the disaster: 260 died in the explosion or shortly thereafter, and six more died later from injuries. Captain Sigsbee and most of the officers survived because their quarters were in the aft portion of the ship.

There is conclusive proof of what sunk the Maine.

The "mine" theory was bullshit used to start a war ... Even the Captain of the Maine said the explosion was caused internally, not by a mine.

As with most deceptions, truth can usually be found in examining the events that led up to the event .. and this one includes a very familiar player.

Several forces within the United States were pushing for a war with Spain. Their tactics were wide ranging and their goal was to engage the opinion of the American people any way possible. Men such as William Randolph Hearst, the owner of The New York Journal was involved in a circulation war with Joseph Pulitzer of the New York World and saw the conflict as a way to sell papers. Many newspapers ran articles of a sensationalist nature and sent correspondents to Cuba to cover the war. Correspondents had to evade Spanish Authorities, usually they were unable to get reliable news and relied heavily on informants for their stories. Many stories were derived from second or third hand accounts and were either elaborated, misrepresented or completely fabricated by journalists to enhance their dramatic effect. Theodore Roosevelt who was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy at this time wanted to use the conflict to help heal the wounds still fresh from the American Civil War, and also to increase the strength of the US Navy, while simultaneously establishing America as a presence on the world stage. Roosevelt put pressure on the United States Congress to come to the aid of the Cuban people. He emphasized Cuban weakness and femininity to justify America's military intervention.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_Spanish_American_War[/ame]
 
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