Philosophy of Thomas Jefferson

[Dutch Uncle]

I’m just in the process of discovering it. Yes! Check it out.

I did not know about this! It sounds like it has serious potential! Can you stream courses and lectures?

I have been old school, using streaming audio and video content from the socialist public library.

Yes. Unfortunately, it appears Apple is dumping ITunesU in favor of just the Podcast area, but the classes should still be available. I mostly like ones I can listen to while working.

One of my favorites was this one: https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-116 25 50-min classes.

Prof. Freeman is a little giggly, but I enjoyed her enthusiasm and knowledge.


This one on the Early Middle Ages is good too: This is another good one: https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I’m just in the process of discovering it. Yes! Check it out.

I will be interested to know what courses you take.

If only real college were this enjoyable -- no homework, no grades, no tests

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/06/12/apple-discontinue-itunes-u-app

The iTunes U app will be shut down at the end of 2021, Apple announced this week.

The app, founded in 2007, is credited with playing a central role in opening up higher education to the public. Institutions such as Stanford University; the University of California, Berkeley; Duke University; and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology all shared free educational content on the app in audio, video or ebook format.

Some university courses shared on the app were so popular that they were downloaded millions of times. Stanford’s iPhone Application Programming course, for example, reached one million downloads in under seven weeks in 2009.

In recent years, however, the app was not regularly updated by Apple, leading some users to theorize that it would soon be shut down. This week that theory was confirmed.

Access to the app and all its content will continue until the end of 2021. The company has provided detailed instructions on how users can save their materials or transfer them over to the Schoolwork app, which is used predominantly by teachers in K-12 and has been a focus of recent investment in education apps from Apple, alongside the Classroom app for iPads and Apple School Manager.

Apple also announced this week that its publishing platform iBooks Author will no longer be updated and won’t be available to new users after July 1. Users are encouraged to transition to newer publishing platform Pages.

 

[Cypress]

Link on Jefferson and Adams? Usually I side with Jefferson against Adams but in this case, as stated, I'm leaning with Adams.


https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Reductive_materialism

I do not have a link to share because I am listening to audio from the library about Jefferson's life.

The correspondence between Jefferson and Adams is considered seminal epistolary literature in American history.

The strict reductionist materialism Jefferson was attracted to does not have a lot of credibility anymore. At one time there was hope that biology and life could be reduced down to the laws of physics. That we would be able to explain everything by invoking first principles of physical laws.

It has become abundantly clear that the standard model of physics cannot explain emergent biological properties like consciousness, intelligence, creativity.

You cannot throw together a collection of quarks and electrons and explain life. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[Cypress]

Yes. Unfortunately, it appears Apple is dumping ITunesU in favor of just the Podcast area, but the classes should still be available. I mostly like ones I can listen to while working.

One of my favorites was this one: https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-116 25 50-min classes.

Prof. Freeman is a little giggly, but I enjoyed her enthusiasm and knowledge.


This one on the Early Middle Ages is good too: This is another good one: https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210

Good times!

I say it is just as important to excercise the brain as it is the body.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I do not have a link to share because I am listening to audio from the library about Jefferson's life.

The correspondence between Jefferson and Adams is considered seminal epistolary literature in American history.

The strict reductionist materialism Jefferson was attracted to does not have a lot of credibility anymore. At one time there was hope that biology and life could be reduced down to the laws of physics. That we would be able to explain everything by invoking first principles of physical laws.

It has become abundantly clear that the standard model of physics cannot explain emergent biological properties like consciousness, intelligence, creativity.

You cannot throw together a collection of quarks and electrons and explain life. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Which audio book? I'd seen where the two correspond quite frequently.

I enjoyed another audio book about Jefferson: The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks.

 

[Cypress]

Which audio book? I'd seen where the two correspond quite frequently.

I enjoyed another audio book about Jefferson: The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks.

I have an audio CD : "Thomas Jefferson: American Visionary", by Professor Darren Staloff.

 

[Cypress]

From what I gather, the transition from classical liberalism to modern liberalism coincided with the evolution of the industrial revolution and oligarchy.

Thomas Jefferson and the 18th century liberals believed the greatest threat to freedom was government, when it became despotic.

The 19th and early 20th century liberals became convinced that the greatest threat to freedom was big business, large corporations, and monopoly.

 

[Cypress]

Our presidents used to be a lot smarter.

I am trying to envision George Dumbya Bush and Donald Trump striking up a correspondence and debating philosophical questions, and I am just not seeing it.

Jefferson was our most mathematically-inclined president, and the Enlightenment tradition was that mathematics and science were the purest forms of reason and logic.

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in the form of a Euclidean proof because the assumption was that mathematical argument was the most convincing and credible form of persuasion.

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

From what I gather, the transition from classical liberalism to modern liberalism coincided with the evolution of the industrial revolution and oligarchy.

Thomas Jefferson and the 18th century liberals believed the greatest threat to freedom was government, when it became despotic.

The 19th and early 20th century liberals became convinced that the greatest threat to freedom was big business, large corporations, and monopoly.

Corporate Capitalism rules America.

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

Jefferson was our most mathematically-inclined president, and the Enlightenment tradition was that mathematics and science were the purest forms of reason and logic.

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in the form of a Euclidean proof because the assumption was that mathematical argument was the most convincing and credible form of persuasion.

Jefferson had a taste for black ladies!

 

[Cypress]

Jefferson had a taste for black ladies!

He did Sally Hemmings wrong.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He did Sally Hemmings wrong.

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Corporate Capitalism rules America.

....and We, the People keep voting for that to happen.

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

Bullshit! Race mixing was sin number one in 18th century

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

....and We, the People keep voting for that to happen.

Doesn't matter, Corporate Capitalism is bipartisan in buying Congressman and Senators

 

[Cypress]

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

We know from his own writings that he considered slavery morally wrong, even though he couldn't bring himself to free his own slaves during his lifetime.

But in my opinion, the ideas of Jefferson can be considered separately from his sins as an individual.

The Declaration of Independence is rhetorically and philosophically one of the most powerful documents ever written, and that is why it has been used as the model around the world by European colonies declaring their independence from their colonial masters.

 

[archives]

In Jefferson's seminal correspondence with John Adams, the two debated philosophical questions.

Jefferson espoused a type of strict, reductionist materialism.

Adams countered with a George Berkley-inspired idealism: that the material world is an illusion and reality is constructed by ideas in our minds.


Since I grew up in the age of Bedtime for Bonzo, Dan Quayle, George Dumbya Bush, Sarah Palin, and Donald Trump, it is weird to think about former presidents corresponding and musing with peers about philosophy and history.

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We know from his own writings that he considered slavery morally wrong, even though he couldn't bring himself to free his own slaves during his lifetime.

But in my opinion, the ideas of Jefferson can be considered separately from his sins as an individual.

The Declaration of Independence is rhetorically and philosophically one of the most powerful documents ever written, and that is why it has been used as the model around the world by European colonies declaring their independence from their colonial masters.

Agreed on Jefferson's writings. He was one of the leading forward thinkers of his time and, IMO, well ahead of his time. The common believe among slave owners was that fucking slaves was a side benny and morally correct.

Agreed the sins of the man and the ideas of the man can be separated.

Agreed on the Declaration of Independence. Notice those who give lip-service to people being endowed with "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" then in the same breath seek to restrict the rights of others under force of law.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

To their credit, the Founders were deep into unknown territory. The common European prediction was that the US would fail and come crawling back to the English Monarchy because they sincerely believed that most people were too fucking stupid to take care of themselves. Notice that the Russians, once free of Soviet totalitarianism, ended up crawling back to being taken care of by a dictator.

In the 21st Century, both the Democratic and Republican parties have replaced the Euro Monarchists.

 

[Cypress]

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

He was our Diplomat in France during the drafting of the Constitution, and so naturally he can't get any credit for the founding of the Republic under the constitutional framework.

I think the Declaration of Independence is one of history's truly significant rhetorical and philosophical documents, and I believe that is where Jefferson's legacy really lies.

The document was a brilliant fusion of natural law, Greek logic and Euclidean proof, and Enlightenment ideals about universal truths.