Police Brutality Today

RStringfield said:
Well, I think private security/police might be best, but like I said most can't grasp that and refuse to even consider it.

I don't know for sure the best way to set it up under the state. I mentioned having the FBI as a check on state and local police. The Milwaukee notion of seperating a ploice brutality DA from normal DA offices where they are dependent and partner with police is interesting. Maybe, more powerful citizen boards. These are all just ideas.
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The only solution is to deprogram people from their fascist brainwash one by one.
 
uscitizen said:
I have seen the problems arising in KY from private guards in privitized prisons in KY.
Now you think a privitized police force would work ?
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There are no private prisons that I am aware of. I am aware of pseudo-private prisons.

A corporation has the capability of being just as corrupt (if not more so) than state-controlled police.
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But there are at least some market checks on a corporation (a state invented person/organization btw).

Like I said, I really don't expect fascists are going to be able to imagine the workings of it. I was asked what I thought would be ideal and I answered honestly. I don't care to debate that because most of you can't comprehend how you would go to the bathroom without government. No way you are ready for this. That's why I prefer to talk about realizable reforms and will point you to more thorough arguments than I can provide on the other.
 
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RStringfield said:
Who provides the demand (that is, who is the customer) for the prison you mentioned?
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The governments of several combined counties, the state, and with the help of the DEA of course. Lack of jobs, education, lowlife lifestyles, etc.

But please what is the difference between a private prison and a psuedo private one ?
 
RStringfield said:
Milwaukee thinking about how it can better handle complaints after FBI investigation was necessary to gain justice in local case.

http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=40420

I have sometimes felt the only good use of the FBI is as a check on local cops. The civil rights era was illustrative of that. But there is a real concern of violating double jeopardy rules. Maybe, some local/state agency that enjoys indepent power could do the job.
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The supreme court has said that it doesn't violate double jeopardy. But it really doesn't seem fair for someone to be declared innocent and then convicted later on again. I think that if the federal government and the state both have a law on the subject, the federal law should preemp the state law.
 
uscitizen said:
The governments of several combined counties, the state, and with the help of the DEA of course. Lack of jobs, education, lowlife lifestyles, etc.

But please what is the difference between a private prison and a psuedo private one ?
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You just answered it. Government is a complete monopsony for these prisons. It's like the peanut gallery comment from bb on Blackwater. No private organizations or citizens are buying these services.
 
RStringfield said:
You just answered it. Government is a complete monopsony for these prisons. It's like the peanut gallery comment from bb on Blackwater. No private organizations or citizens are buying these services.
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???

the prisons are owned by corporations who hire the guards and the "guests " are private citizens as well...The money to pay for it comes out of tax money paid largely by private citizens and is paid to a corporation.

You are right I will never understand what you mean. and I am darned glad of it.

btw they are costing over 2X to operate as their proponents claimed they would. On a per inmate basis. suprise suprise.
 
You don't understand because you are fucking retarded. The government has a monopsony (i.e., the only buyer) of the prison's services. Because of that there is little pressure to control costs. The government has little incentive to keep its costs down, so why would its vendors?
 
Ohh I understand, I have long been against privitization of government functions.
I am not even convinced that govt required auto insurance should be in private hands.
Now the collision part to protect lenders equity is another matter.
imho most anything required by law should be run by the govt.
 
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uscitizen said:
Yep the cops protect their own, just like lawyers , educators, and doctors do.
One of the problems with letting an entity regulate iteslf.
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I love G.B.Shaw on that - "all professions are a conspiracy against the laity".

Stringy, get that obsession checked out man, it's not healthy. Next you'll be voting Republican, you can stop it now if you act.
 
uscitizen said:
Ohh I understand, I have long been against privitization of government functions.
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Because you buy into to false privatization. There are some small advantages that might be realized in this case of "privatizing" prisons, but it would require that the government were not a bunch of corrupt sobs taking kickbacks from the "private" prison operators. Since that is not likely...
 
My opinion on private industry/government follows:

I do not believe the government should mandate that I give any of my money to any corporation or group of corporations.
 
Diuretic said:
I love G.B.Shaw on that - "all professions are a conspiracy against the laity".

Stringy, get that obsession checked out man, it's not healthy. Next you'll be voting Republican, you can stop it now if you act.
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Only, an obsession against police brutality (which I don't really have... see below) leads to voting Republican??? Nahhh, most Republicans fail to see that the entire criminal justice system (along with the war machine) is just another example of the failure of government. That is mainly becaue they have a knee jerk reaction in defense, because the harm mainly falls on the poor and minorities and so they associate it with the left. Libertarians hate government because it hurts individuals, regardles of race, creed or class.

As I have explained before, I have just been plugging away on the police brutality because of Balko (one of the best bloggers/journalist alive) and I think there might be more of a niche there for libertarian ideas. You abuse the idea of the statist criminal justice system and the offensive military and there really is no good argument for government left.
 
RStringfield said:
Only, an obsession against police brutality (which I don't really have... see below) leads to voting Republican??? Nahhh, most Republicans fail to see that the entire criminal justice system (along with the war machine) is just another example of the failure of government. That is mainly becaue they have a knee jerk reaction in defense, because the harm mainly falls on the poor and minorities and so they associate it with the left. Libertarians hate government because it hurts individuals, regardles of race, creed or class.

As I have explained before, I have just been plugging away on the police brutality because of Balko (one of the best bloggers/journalist alive) and I think there might be more of a niche there for libertarian ideas. You abuse the idea of the statist criminal justice system and the offensive military and there really is no good argument for government left.
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Out of interest what does libertarian theory say about the existence of a criminal justice system? Does it support having a criminal justice system or does it theorise another approach?
 
Diuretic said:
Out of interest what does libertarian theory say about the existence of a criminal justice system? Does it support having a criminal justice system or does it theorise another approach?
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Most libertarians fall in the "minarchist" (minimum government necessary) camp. They argue that the government's proper role is police, courts and national defense. Others are anarcho-capitalist and would prefer private police and courts.

I tend to be somewhere in between. I don't see any reason to believe government is necessary at all. But it remains inevitable politically. Also, I have concerns about the fact that a market does not exist for many government services, so transitional policies might be necessary.
 
RStringfield said:
Most libertarians fall in the "minarchist" (minimum government necessary) camp. They argue that the government's proper role is police, courts and national defense. Others are anarcho-capitalist and would prefer private police and courts.

I tend to be somewhere in between. I don't see any reason to believe government is necessary at all. But it remains inevitable politically. Also, I have concerns about the fact that a market does not exist for many government services, so transitional policies might be necessary.
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Do you think that we're all - let's say "we" meaning all those of us who live in liberal-democracies - a bit complacent about government? I mean, if anyone reading this lives in a liberal-democracy then it's a fair bet they (unless they're immigrants) have always lived in a liberal-democracy. That's all we've known and it seems to work so we sit back and think, 'well this must be the way things were meant to be' and we don't think about any alternatives.
 
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