Pure Stupidity

It depends on what you are attempting to conserve. The mission statement says that we aim to conserve the liberal principles that America was founded on, such as Natural Rights and the Rule of Law. Obviously, there could be other things...
 
It depends on what you are attempting to conserve. The mission statement says that we aim to conserve the liberal principles that America was founded on, such as Natural Rights and the Rule of Law. Obviously, there could be other things...

What if you're intending to conserve socialism and progress with freedom?
 
We're arguing semantics anyway. Yes, if you literally take "conservative" as to mean "to conserve" and completely and totally ignore all of the relevant cultural context of the word, you'd get Three's conclusion.
 
First, I must ask who is Brent and why am I being associated with him? Was this a member who was banned? Secondly, there are many aspects of libertarianism which are in agreement with conservatism, to the extent that I'd consider many libertarians to be conservative. There are however also many libertarians who I'd consider to be liberal. It really depends on the individual. I'm just not a fan of political labels - they divide people who might otherwise reach some kind of consensus. Democrats vs Republicans being the perfect example.

Watermark, are you a libertarian?
 
What if you're intending to conserve socialism and progress with freedom?

You would be a neocon. :cof1:

First, I must ask who is Brent and why am I being associated with him? Was this a member who was banned? Secondly, there are many aspects of libertarianism which are in agreement with conservatism, to the extent that I'd consider many libertarians to be conservative. There are however also many libertarians who I'd consider to be liberal. It really depends on the individual. I'm just not a fan of political labels - they divide people who might otherwise reach some kind of consensus. Democrats vs Republicans being the perfect example.

Watermark, are you a libertarian?

Brent was the guy who originally created the Conservative Coalition group, but he left, and we were without a moderator until Damo got tired of using his admin. powers to moderate it and left me in charge.

He was strange, and experimented with religions, such as a stint he did in Mormonism. Watermark is very much like him, in that Brent is young, and Watermark pretends to be different things at different times - such as being a libertarian for a while back on an older site.
 
He was strange, and experimented with religions, such as a stint he did in Mormonism. Watermark is very much like him, in that Brent is young, and Watermark pretends to be different things at different times - such as being a libertarian for a while back on an older site.

I WAS a libertarian. Conservatism is a phase that mature people grow out of and immature people stay in.
 
First, I must ask who is Brent and why am I being associated with him? Was this a member who was banned? Secondly, there are many aspects of libertarianism which are in agreement with conservatism, to the extent that I'd consider many libertarians to be conservative. There are however also many libertarians who I'd consider to be liberal. It really depends on the individual. I'm just not a fan of political labels - they divide people who might otherwise reach some kind of consensus. Democrats vs Republicans being the perfect example.

Watermark, are you a libertarian?

Your prose was a little like his, so I suspected it, then I went digging in your profile for "proof" and found it in your conservative coalition membership. I was still under the impression that it was run by Brent, and that he had sent his new alias a membership. I didn't bother to check because I thought the group was otherwise dormant; it was a true snorefest when he was admin. So I failed. Whatever.
 
"Bipartisanship" is for losers, idiots, and democrats.

Even the newly elected RNC Chair, Michael Steele, says as much.

Democrats are pussies.

And, as Darla has said, they're essentially pimping the seat.
 
"Bipartisanship" is for losers, idiots, and democrats.

Even the newly elected RNC Chair, Michael Steele, says as much.

Democrats are pussies.

And, as Darla has said, they're essentially pimping the seat.

Digby did a most excellent job on just this point today. She is right. Obama is wrong. I know he won, and that proved his toughness and his smartness. He's wrong.

Fractious Factions

by digby

Good for E.J. Dionne for injecting this into elite opinion. If it isn't said by one of the village scibblers, it's as if it doesn't exist, so I really appreciate his bringing up the subject.

The dynamics of Washington aren't new and they aren't particular to these players. We have a two party system. As Dionne mentions, there's always been a strain of anti-partisanship in America, particularly among a certain class of political elites, of which Obama is clearly one, for what appears to be philosophical and temperamental reasons as well as more pragmatic, political ones.

This is an argument that goes all the way back to the beginning of the country. The famous Federalist #10 (and #9) deals with the danger of factions and the need for several layers of check and balances to ensure that the majority doesn't run roughshod. One of the problems, as Madison saw it, was that since the majority were not property owners, they would be likely to overrule those who did and we all know where that leads...

Garry Wills in his book Explaining America, wrote that Madison's protection of the minority most often stands in the way of progress:


"Minorities can make use of dispersed and staggered governmental machinery to clog, delay, slow down, hamper, and obstruct the majority. But these weapons for delay are given to the minority irrespective of its factious or nonfactious character; and they can be used against the majority irrespective of its factious or nonfactious character. What Madison prevents is not faction, but action. What he protects is not the common good but delay as such."

Let's face it. We all hate partisanship when the other party has an edge. When we have the power, we think we should have the upper hand and when we don't have the power, we believe in checks and balances. The very idea of partisanship is, therefore, partisan. (And in recent years the idea of faction stopping action, has been the hope among liberals anyway, that the Democratic faction would stop the radical program of the "conservative" movement, so it does go both ways.)

But it has always been part of the system. Madison's idea was that the bigger the country the more factions there are and therefore the less effect any one group would have. What he didn't foresee, and none of them did, was that this process they created would build a durable and unbreakable two party system. Candidates always say they want to stop the partisan bickering or be a united not a divider or break with the braindead politics of the past. But the reality is that we have two parties that represent different ideologies and they fight it out for supremacy, which moves back and forth between them. (It is worth noting that in the past 35 years or so, the Republicans have been more successful at advancing their agenda because the Democrats were on the decline in the South during much of it --- and they failed to exercise their prerogatives when they were in the minority.)

This flawed system hums along most of the time fairly well, but in times of crisis it depends upon the good will of the minority to stop using its built in extraordinary powers to obstruct and join with the majority to solve the problem, whether its war or depression or, conceivably, environmental catastrophe. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a rump, regional minority party today which does not believe in compromise under any circumstances. They are very much like the people Lincoln spoke of in the famous Cooper Union speech I've referenced many, many times on this blog:


The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.

These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them.


Much like the southern confederates of Lincoln's time, the modern Republicans believe that until Democrats sign on to their ideology, openly and without any deviation, they must stop them, no matter what the consequences. When they are in the majority, they dominate without apology and when they are in the minority, they throw themselves into the machinery to obstruct anything that isn't part of their agenda. They are perfectly willing to destroy the country.

In the current party permutations, bipartisanship only succeeds when the Democrats are in the minority. And that is precisely why the permanent political establishment only concerns itself with bipartisanship when the Democrats are in the majority. Going all the way back to the very beginning the biggest worry among the elites was that the rubes would get too much power. They're still holding the line.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
 
Woodrow Wilson wrote a great deal about the importance of the filibuster during the early 20th Century. Then he became president and discovered that it could be extremely irritating. What your circumstances are have a lot to do with this kind of stuff.
 
I didn't vote for Obama, but I am delighted to see that he is making an effort to govern from the center. I sincerely hope his administration is a successful one. :)
Me too. I'm fed up to here with partisan bickering and back biting. I've had it with ideologues and extremist from both parties.
 
The second thing is this: "A main factor in whether Mr. Gregg accepts the commerce job, these officials say, is a commitment from Mr. Lynch that he strongly consider a Republican or an independent for the Senate vacancy."

What was Blago impeached for again? And if Obama was on the phone with this guy getting "a commitment that he will stronly consider a Democrat" before picking Gregg, Republicans would be saying what?

I am not getting the Blago reference. There is no quid pro quo here... just a verbal committment to consider a Republican or Independent. No benefits for the governor. Or am I missing something???
 
Just watched Mitch the bitch McConnel saying the republicans are going to target the problem, not waste it.

LOL, I can't wait to see the republicans wish list.
 
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