Put it on the Credit Card Says Krugman

Watermark said:
The market needs an adjustment.




Not a failure.
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And that adjustment occurs by prices/values adjusting to where they should be; set by the market (people themselves) - not by the inflationary, counterfeit Federal Reserve method of spending through borrowing.

You want to "adjust" by the same methodology that caused the problem in the first place.
 
Krugman is a msart guy, however is is a product of his environment.
The environment that Produced Krugman is not a sustainable stable environment.
 
ironhead said:
And that adjustment occurs by prices/values adjusting to where they should be; set by the market (people themselves) - not by the inflationary, counterfeit Federal Reserve method of spending through borrowing.

You want to "adjust" by the same methodology that caused the problem in the first place.
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No, you are wrong. Things cannot be made better by fucking up the economy.
 
WM we must suffer a while to learn, it is the way of stupid greedy humans.
We are in a no pain no gain situation.
 
uscitizen said:
WM we must suffer a while to learn, it is the way of stupid greedy humans.
We are in a no pain no gain situation.
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Doing nothing would be like getting out a shotgun and blasting off our foot because we have an ingrown toenail.

OH, but a libertarian will tell you that in twenty years or so they'll be able to replace that foot, and it'll be robotic and that'll be cool because robots are cool and libertarians are sci-fi obsessed internet dorks.
 
Watermark said:
Doing nothing would be like getting out a shotgun and blasting off our foot because we have an ingrown toenail.

OH, but a libertarian will tell you that in twenty years or so they'll be able to replace that foot, and it'll be robotic and that'll be cool because robots are cool and libertarians are sci-fi obsessed internet dorks.
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Poor analogy, shooting your foot off is doing something.

Let the market decide.... it has it's head up it's ass. do not bail it out.
 
Watermark said:
Doing nothing would be like getting out a shotgun and blasting off our foot because we have an ingrown toenail.

OH, but a libertarian will tell you that in twenty years or so they'll be able to replace that foot, and it'll be robotic and that'll be cool because robots are cool and libertarians are sci-fi obsessed internet dorks.
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Socialism makes you stupid.
 
There are times when letting things go is the best thing to do for the long run. If we continue with past behaviors, which is what is being current advised and supported by our wise and benevolent government, we will continue to see crisis after crisis after crisis.

The plain fact is the economy is fucked. That goes world wide. We have been propped up on deficit spending both in government and in business and in the household. Deficit spending can NOT go on indefinitely. Each year the facts are pointed out to us about how the federal debt has so many billion dollars in interest charges. What we do NOT discuss is the amount of interest spent annually on private debt - and what it would mean to a long term economy if we were to make a concerted effort to pay down the debt and shift those interest payment to actually buying something, instead of paying huge bucks for things we bought before we could afford them.

If we want to TRULY recover, then we need to make major changes throughout society. Our wise and benevolent government needs to encourage a nation wide (if not world wide) philosophy of PayGo. No more 50" TV's bought on credit. Either buy what you can afford at the time, or wait and save until you can afford what you want.

Apply that basic tenet to ALL purchasing:
Don't get the McMansion and HOPE you income will rise to meet the ballooning payments 10 years hence. Buy what you reasonably afford on TODAY's income.

Buy a car that does what you NEED it to do. Sorry, but you do not need the automatic ass wiper that comes on deluxe models and will add $40/mo to you payment.

And for all else, do NOT buy it on credit EVER. Want something, SAVE for it. What is saved on interest payments will eventually buy that 50" plasma screen you want so badly. Save credit for true emergencies, like the furnace in your house going south, or the transmission in your car falls out on the highway during vacation trip.

If we, as a society, start living within our means, a long term, stable, healthy, and consistently growing economy will be the result WITHOUT the constant need for governmental tweeking to keep things going.
 
Good Luck said:
There are times when letting things go is the best thing to do for the long run. If we continue with past behaviors, which is what is being current advised and supported by our wise and benevolent government, we will continue to see crisis after crisis after crisis.

The plain fact is the economy is fucked. That goes world wide. We have been propped up on deficit spending both in government and in business and in the household. Deficit spending can NOT go on indefinitely. Each year the facts are pointed out to us about how the federal debt has so many billion dollars in interest charges. What we do NOT discuss is the amount of interest spent annually on private debt - and what it would mean to a long term economy if we were to make a concerted effort to pay down the debt and shift those interest payment to actually buying something, instead of paying huge bucks for things we bought before we could afford them.

If we want to TRULY recover, then we need to make major changes throughout society. Our wise and benevolent government needs to encourage a nation wide (if not world wide) philosophy of PayGo. No more 50" TV's bought on credit. Either buy what you can afford at the time, or wait and save until you can afford what you want.

Apply that basic tenet to ALL purchasing:
Don't get the McMansion and HOPE you income will rise to meet the ballooning payments 10 years hence. Buy what you reasonably afford on TODAY's income.

Buy a car that does what you NEED it to do. Sorry, but you do not need the automatic ass wiper that comes on deluxe models and will add $40/mo to you payment.

And for all else, do NOT buy it on credit EVER. Want something, SAVE for it. What is saved on interest payments will eventually buy that 50" plasma screen you want so badly. Save credit for true emergencies, like the furnace in your house going south, or the transmission in your car falls out on the highway during vacation trip.

If we, as a society, start living within our means, a long term, stable, healthy, and consistently growing economy will be the result WITHOUT the constant need for governmental tweeking to keep things going.
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I agree completely, but how can we expect people to live within their means when their government most certainly does not? Moreover, the monetary system itself is based on expanion of credit/dollars and is not backed by anything of value. People are slowly waking up to the tyranny that is the Federal Reserve.
 
ironhead said:
I agree completely, but how can we expect people to live within their means when their government most certainly does not? Moreover, the monetary system itself is based on expanion of credit/dollars and is not backed by anything of value. People are slowly waking up to the tyranny that is the Federal Reserve.
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No they're not.
 
ironhead said:
I agree completely, but how can we expect people to live within their means when their government most certainly does not? Moreover, the monetary system itself is based on expanion of credit/dollars and is not backed by anything of value. People are slowly waking up to the tyranny that is the Federal Reserve.
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You're a fucking idiot. Money is valuable in itself as a medium of exchange. The federal reserve is not "Tyranny", go tell your RP conspiracy theories somewhere else.
 
Watermark said:
You're a fucking idiot. Money is valuable in itself as a medium of exchange. The federal reserve is not "Tyranny", go tell your RP conspiracy theories somewhere else.
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It is convenient to have a medium of exchange, that is true, but fiat money like we have is too susceptible to inflation and, the people allowed to create it for their purposes become too powerful relative to all other members of society, thus it facilitates a totalitarian relationship, ultimately.
 
AssHatZombie said:
It is convenient to have a medium of exchange, that is true, but fiat money like we have is too susceptible to inflation and, the people allowed to create it for their purposes become too powerful relative to all other members of society, thus it facilitates a totalitarian relationship, ultimately.
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And they use the guise of "controlling" the boom-bust cycle, all while we continue to experience it...

Again, reality has nothing on "But we heard teh Economistststs say it!"
 
Watermark said:
You're a fucking idiot. Money is valuable in itself as a medium of exchange. The federal reserve is not "Tyranny", go tell your RP conspiracy theories somewhere else.
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First of all, thanks for the ad-hom insult. The Federal Reserve most certainly is tyranny, as it enables our government to wage wars based on money it does not have. If you don't think that war is the greatest injustice and can't identify the elementary correlation between the Fed and our government's ability to wage war, then you're considerably deficient.

Secondly, I didn't assert that fiat money can have no value. However, considering that it is not backed by anything of relative value, it's trading value can be easily depreciated, which obviously provides an incentive to spend on credit (i.e. if inflation kills your ability to buy things or your wages to keep up with inflation, you will be more likely to spend on credit).
 
ironhead said:
I agree completely, but how can we expect people to live within their means when their government most certainly does not? Moreover, the monetary system itself is based on expanion of credit/dollars and is not backed by anything of value. People are slowly waking up to the tyranny that is the Federal Reserve.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but excusing people's credit spending habits on the government's deficit spending does not wash. I do not think anyone, even the most die hard big-government-is-my-mommy advocate bases their spending habits on what they see congress do.

As for the monetary system, it has it's problems for sure. But neither is that an excuse for people living beyond their means, then blaming government when their little world of cards comes tumbling down around them.

I do blame government is so far as they have, for 80+ years, had an ongoing program which intentionally encourages credit spending. And each time the economy made a significant slow down, they adjusted banking and lending laws to push credit into expanded markets.

But when it comes to the bottom line, the people need to take a look in the mirror if they want to find whom to lay the majority of blame for our economic woes over the years, to include the current crisis. The need for instantaneous gratification, the need for more and bigger, and not willing to admit the paycheck coming home simply was not up to their desires; people of all political philosophies, and in most "1st world" countries have spent themselves in a hole that defies comprehension.

And since it is the people's spending habits primarily at fault, it is the people who are going to have to change their spending habits if they want to get out of this cycle of boom and crisis. Government has to get their spending under control, also. No doubt about it. But the government could have had a balanced budget the last 20 years, and it would not have avoided the eventual fall of the economy as personal debt outpaced personal income.
 
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