Rapid Quiz for Sir Evil

However illegal immigration should not be tolerated. As soon as it is discovered that a person is here illegally they must be deported. I am open to having an entirely open border if we cut back on entitlement programs they would be able to take advantage of.

Just curious: what would you do with an illegal immigrant who has been here 20 years, and has children who are american citizens?
 
Cypress said:
However illegal immigration should not be tolerated. As soon as it is discovered that a person is here illegally they must be deported. I am open to having an entirely open border if we cut back on entitlement programs they would be able to take advantage of.

Just curious: what would you do with an illegal immigrant who has been here 20 years, and has children who are american citizens?
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If you actually wish to build deterrence you cannot continue to cater to people because of their children. To be just in the decision to always deport would mean you would have to treat these people the same as you would those without children.
 
I'd be careful. i don't think it would be fair to deport people for administrative oversights. Our gov't workers are pretty inept and inefficient when it comes to processing immigrants. I think we should immediately deport those who COME here illegally. If you came through the proper channels and are in the process of doing it right, it's highly possible that paper work is just stuck in someone's desk and expiration dates come and go. Technically if a critical expiration date comes and goes, the gov't knows your "here" illegally. I'd put those people at the bottom of the list for deportation.

Oh I never meant that they should be immediately deported obviously there should be a hearing to determine their actual status.
 
Damocles said:
If you actually wish to build deterrence you cannot continue to cater to people because of their children. To be just in the decision to always deport would mean you would have to treat these people the same as you would those without children.
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fair enough. I don't believe in black and white solutions. I think case-by-case situations need to exist in the laws.
 
Just curious: what would you do with an illegal immigrant who has been here 20 years, and has children who are american citizens?

If they have children who are American citizens they should be able to stay. However I will also say that a child born of a woman who snuck across the border a week ago should not be automatically a citizen. I propose a constitutional amendment that would require that any child born in the US has to have at least one parent who has been a legal resident for 9 months.
 
Cypress said:
fair enough. I don't believe in black and white solutions. I think case-by-case situations need to exist in the laws.
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I believe that making laws difficult to understand and follow creates misunderstandings and discrimination... These people are more valuable because blah, blah... measuring the value of people is directly discriminatory. Either the law applies, or it does not. It should not be determined by arbitrary value placed on people for discriminatory reasons.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Just curious: what would you do with an illegal immigrant who has been here 20 years, and has children who are american citizens?

If they have children who are American citizens they should be able to stay. However I will also say that a child born of a woman who snuck across the border a week ago should not be automatically a citizen. I propose a constitutional amendment that would require that any child born in the US has to have at least one parent who has been a legal resident for 9 months.
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This just makes it so they would target fathers for their children differently. Why do they have more value because of their children?
 
Cypress said:
However illegal immigration should not be tolerated. As soon as it is discovered that a person is here illegally they must be deported. I am open to having an entirely open border if we cut back on entitlement programs they would be able to take advantage of.

Just curious: what would you do with an illegal immigrant who has been here 20 years, and has children who are american citizens?
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Well, in my opinion they've had plenty of time to go through the process of becoming a legal. If we are going to decide that we will not tolerate illegal immigration then we shouldn't tolerate it. If the children are too young to care for themselves then I think the parents should have the option of leaving them here with a legal guardian or taking them back.
 
LadyT said:
Well, in my opinion they've had plenty of time to go through the process of becoming a legal. If we are going to decide that we will not tolerate illegal immigration then we shouldn't tolerate it. If the children are too young to care for themselves then I think the parents should have the option of leaving them here with a legal guardian or taking them back.
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Exactly. LadyT. Giving them a pass because they squeezed out a kid is an abitrary means of determining legality that incentivizes illegitimate pregnancies in an already detrimental situation. This shouldn't be incentivized this way.
 
This just makes it so they would target fathers for their children differently. Why do they have more value because of their children?

No I don't favor having different laws for men. The same would apply. I do think though that if American kids are entrenched in America and are citizens they should not be deprived of their parents.

Is it fair to those who don't have children? No it isn't.

But it also isn't fair to the children who are now deprived of either a parent or their country because of a mistake of their parent.

And the second is a larger injustice than the first.

Let me further clarify that this would only apply to parents who have children under 18 years of age.
 
I don't think its fair that people with children get a pass while others don't. That's discriminatory. I think hte child can stay if a legal guardian steps up to take care of them or the child should go with his or her parents.

I also think we need to do more to hold companies responsible for knowingly hiring people that do not have their papers.
 
I don't think its fair that people with children get a pass while others don't. That's discriminatory. I think hte child can stay if a legal guardian steps up to take care of them or the child should go with his or her parents.

Is that fair to the child?
 
IHateGovernment said:
This just makes it so they would target fathers for their children differently. Why do they have more value because of their children?

No I don't favor having different laws for men. The same would apply. I do think though that if American kids are entrenched in America and are citizens they should not be deprived of their parents.

Is it fair to those who don't have children? No it isn't.

But it also isn't fair to the children who are now deprived of either a parent or their country because of a mistake of their parent.

And the second is a larger injustice than the first.

Let me further clarify that this would only apply to parents who have children under 18 years of age.
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No, you don't understand. The Illegal female would seek out a father that had lived here for more than 9 months legally. It would be easily found as well. We all know men are dawgs and they could easily find fathers for their anchors...

It may not be fair to the children that are deprived of living in the US, but it certainly is not just to give incentive for illegitimate children in such a way. The poorest only get more poor when they have illegitimate children. It is not wise, it is not just and it cannot be something we incentivize through such laws.
 
IHateGovernment said:
This just makes it so they would target fathers for their children differently. Why do they have more value because of their children?
Is it fair to those who don't have children? No it isn't.

But it also isn't fair to the children who are now deprived of either a parent or their country because of a mistake of their parent.

And the second is a larger injustice than the first.
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Larger injustice? That's an abritrary opinion. I think laws that blatently discriminate against people without kids is the larger injustice. No one is saying that the parents couldn't eventually apply for citizenship the right way, but unless they are a political refugee who will be sentenced to death when they return to their home country, I think you're assement is a bit over-dramatized.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I don't think its fair that people with children get a pass while others don't. That's discriminatory. I think hte child can stay if a legal guardian steps up to take care of them or the child should go with his or her parents.

Is that fair to the child?
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Yes, just as my decisions will effect my child, so do theirs. This simply puts responsibility back where it belongs. We incentivize these births so that they may have an anchor to stay in this nation regardless of laws. This is not a fair application of law, and incentivizes negative behavior.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I don't think its fair that people with children get a pass while others don't. That's discriminatory. I think hte child can stay if a legal guardian steps up to take care of them or the child should go with his or her parents.

Is that fair to the child?
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Yes. They would be a citizen and enitled to stay. Or they can go back with their parents to their home country.
 
Let me give this example.

A woman sneaks over to the US from China in a container. She has a child two years after coming over. The child goes to our schools, makes friends here and speaks english perfectly while they don't speak a word of Mandarin. The mother cares for her child alone and quite well. The child performs well in school and shows great promise.

13 years after her arrival she is discovered to be an illegal and is subject to deportation. The 11 year old child is faced with going to a land she knows nothing about and doesn't speak the language. Not to mention that it is an oppressive country that would be totally alien to her American freedom sensibilities. Or she can live in a foster home with parents who may or may not love her or even care for her very well. To the child her mother is the only one who could love her and America is the only land that could have her.

Why do this to an innocent child just because her mother made a mistake. I think this bears weight in consideration.
 
Damocles said:
I believe that making laws difficult to understand and follow creates misunderstandings and discrimination... These people are more valuable because blah, blah... measuring the value of people is directly discriminatory. Either the law applies, or it does not. It should not be determined by arbitrary value placed on people for discriminatory reasons.
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OK. I can't see the world in a black and white way. I believe our laws require flexibiliy.

To me, if an illegal immigrant served in the marines, got a silver star, and got his leg blown off serving in iraq, I'd give that mofo citizenship.

Under your black and white version of the law, he would be deported.
 
I agree with Cypress as long as these exceptions are codified. Although ideally a person who tried to sign up for the military would be immediately discovered to be an illegal and deported.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I agree with Cypress as long as these exceptions are codified. Although ideally a person who tried to sign up for the military would be immediately discovered to be an illegal and deported.
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welcome to progressive thinking. Laws can't always be black and white. ;)


I can think of waivers and exceptions I'd grant to illegal immigrants.
 
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