Same old republicans, same old failed ideas

[apple0154]

Government is NOT always the answer. In fact, government is RARELY the correct answer. Why, you ask (and have been REPEATEDLY told, but you refuse to hear) are government programs bad? First, because the programs are almost invariably designed to CREATE dependence on the very programs which are SUPPOSED to help people - which means further and PROLONGED poverty, by the very design of the assistance system you laud. What kind of "help" is it when the people are enmeshed in the system which PURPOSELY KEEPS them at a low level of income, and then takes away assistance at a rate greater than they can replace by working to get out of the system?

I agree and have said so many times. The problem is some people are so afraid someone is going to get something for nothing so in order to reach a compromise most programs are perverted from their original intent. That being said it does not mean the programs should be scrapped. It means they need adjusting.

Welfare, for example, pays so little do we expect someone is going to waste money on a bus ticket going for a job interview knowing they have little to no chance of getting the job? Those few dollars required for bus tickets are their dinner money.

While government programs help they do not help enough. That’s the problem. As for getting rid of them we have to remember why we have them. There was a time when there weren’t any programs. Everything was private. Everyone had to take “personal responsibility”. It was like that for thousands of years and people went hungry, suffered and died. That’s why we have government programs.

The solution is not to get rid of them. We have thousands of years of history to see how well “private” and “personal responsibility” worked. It didn’t. That’s why we have government programs. The solution is to adjust them.

And to top it off, use fear mongering of those bad, selfish, mean conservatives who want to take EVERYTHING away from them. I do NOT call it help.

It’s not fear mongering. It is a legitimate fear because some people have read history books and they know what happened. Just check pictures and stories from the 30’s depression. That was “private” and “personal responsibility” in action. Both adults and children without food and shelter. No medical care. No dentists. NOTHING!

While government programs have halted outright starvation they haven’t gone nearly far enough. That’s the problem. With more and more people living in cities there needs to be a comprehensive overhaul of programs. City dwellers can not take “personal responsibility” and hunt and fish to feed their families nor chop down trees to build a shelter.

Remember the conversations regarding the year 2000 and people worried how the patches and add-ons over the years would affect computers? That’s similar to government programs. We’ve had patches and add-ons to deal with problems and we’re left with a maze of rules and regulations. The problem is while the system needs a complete revamping to package all the programs into one comprehensive aid package others want to eliminate certain benefits resulting in nothing getting done.

It was the same thing with medical care. For decades some people tried to have a comprehensive government program which would include everyone while others wanted a more “private” solution. In the end a solution had to be pushed through. As Obama said the time for talk is over.

You have NO fucking idea what it is like to TRULY be poor. You look at people in government tenements eating prepared meals on food stamps while watching color cable TV and you call them poor because they cannot afford a new car, a bigger TV, and a 5 bedroom McMansion. Sorry, but those whom we deem as living below the poverty line in the U.S. are considered borderline wealthy by a large percentage of the Earth. (Not to mention personal experience.)

Then why aren’t people quitting their jobs and going on welfare if it’s such a great life? It’s available to everyone. All you have to do is stay in bed a few mornings until you’re fired and then go to the welfare office. Before you know it you’ll be living the good life.

It is you who have no idea what living on welfare is like. Their $300.00 TV is the only enjoyment they have. They can’t afford to go out for dinner or take a vacation or drop into Star Bucks or go shopping or do any other activity. Maybe we should just lock them in an empty, windowless room?

This is my argument with regard to SS: The liberals are dead set against anything resembling privatization, and tell horror tales (again, the fear mongering of which they correctly, yet still hypocritically accuse republicans) of what would happen if we were to invest SS funds in the stock market.

For God sake, pick up a history book! You want to read real life horror tales? Read about the depression of the 30’s before there were government programs. People were “free”, alright. Free to go hungry. Free to go homeless. Free to suffer without any medical care.

It’s not fear mongering. It actually happened. The good, old days of “private” and “personal responsibility” are well documented. Do try to educate yourself.

 

[apple0154]

Do you really imagine that those that work long and hard and prosper will continue to just give what they earn away so people that won't, don't or can't work and prosper can enjoy a standard of living for doing nothing.....really ?

I see you're history challenged just like Good Luck. When things reach a certain point either the prosperous willingly give or it is taken. That has happened, over and over, down through the ages. Those who don't share their cake lose their mind along with their head.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

apple's new slicer....

 

[apple0154]

apple's new slicer....

It looks similar to my cigar cutter.

 

[Good Luck]

I agree and have said so many times. The problem is some people are so afraid someone is going to get something for nothing so in order to reach a compromise most programs are perverted from their original intent. That being said it does not mean the programs should be scrapped. It means they need adjusting.

And, once again, the point flies straight over your head. Maybe if you weren't bent over with you head up government's ass, that would not happen so often.

The POINT is these "problems" with the design of assistance programs are INTENTIONAL. This is NOT a case of "unintended consequences" because of "compromises" due to "some people are so afraid someone is going to get something for nothing". There are many ways of assuring that people who receive assistance NEED the assistance, and assuring the amount of assistance is appropriate to those needs. There is no way in HELL the REPEATED offense of withdrawing assistance values faster than people can make up for through working more is an accident. It is repeated far too often, and far too closely in design to be the result of compromise perverting the original intent. The original intent IS to gather people into an economic trap, and, with the addition of scare mongering, KEEP them there as a solid voting block. The only "compromise" going on is the federal government demanding that people compromise their liberties in order to receive help.

And BECAUSE they are intentionally designed as trap, there is no way the federal government is going to "adjust" them to be the type of program they are supposed to be. The government is MORE POWERFUL because of the dependency these programs have created, and government is NEVER going to willingly give up its extra power.

It’s not fear mongering. It is a legitimate fear because some people have read history books and they know what happened. Just check pictures and stories from the 30’s depression. That was “private” and “personal responsibility” in action. Both adults and children without food and shelter. No medical care. No dentists. NOTHING!

Yes, it IS fear mongering, and you are among the worst of the fear mongers it has been my misfortune to interact with. Name ONE program which has been terminated while the republicans had full power of government. Just ONE. Take a week or two to do your research. I guarantee you one thing: you will not find a SINGLE case where an assistance program has been terminated. Therefore, all your rhetoric that conservatives are out to TAKE AWAY people's assistance are SO MUCH FUCKING LIES. Period. fear mongering at its worst. Full blown, and without any redeeming factors what so ever. All of your strawmen are based on this one single overblown lie. Sure, we fiscal conservatives desire to restructure assistance programs - FIX them so they become the intended hand-up instead of a multi-generational way of life you mindless liberal fuckups have turned them into. We desire to get rid of the bloated, wasteful, and incredibly expensive bureaucracies these programs have created, which sucks billions of dollars away from the people who need the help, and into the pockets of high level government functionaries. We desire to move assistance programs where they belong: at the state and local level, where control and feedback are much more responsive, and much less wasteful. We want them local because LOCAL programs have the ability to take advantage of volunteerism - the personal responsibility aspect that federal programs do and always will be lacking. But get rid of assistance entirely? Maybe some hardcores who think all society should be based on economic darwinism. But for the vast (99%+) majority, simply ENDING assistance programs is not a goal and never has been. That is a lie you and your political masters use to scare people into voting for more political masters.

Then why aren’t people quitting their jobs and going on welfare if it’s such a great life? It’s available to everyone. All you have to do is stay in bed a few mornings until you’re fired and then go to the welfare office. Before you know it you’ll be living the good life.

Listen up you cocksucking piece slime ridden liberalism. You DON'T know what the fuck POOR is. I highly doubt you have even SEEN real poverty, except in pictures. Compared to REAL poverty, yes, those below the US poverty line ARE living the "good life". When one grows up with 7 people, 3 adults and 4 children, in a two room shack, hoping that tonight's meal will have some meat in it, even if it's a piece of gopher, when that meal is considered better than usual if the gruel is thick enough to need a spoon to eat with, THAT is real poverty.

As for why more people don't "live the goods life" by intentionally living off welfare, I would HOPE it is because most people have something called self-respect. (I know, another one of those concepts that is beyond the reach of big-mommy government twits. Why else would liberalism need to instill false self-respect in the education system by rewarding failure as much as success?)

The reason more people don't PURPOSELY live it is we can do even better by actually taking a bit of personal responsibility and WORKING for a life even better.

 

[DamnYankee]

Brian Williams started the debate with the fact most Americans blame the policies of the last administration for the mess the economy is in now. So what do the candidates do but outline the policies of the last administration in more abstract and fluffy words, commenting on how well they have done and will do. Nothing new here, boring and predictable.

Now that The Obama has proposed more of the same failed borrow and spend policies that haven't worked for three years, were you just as bored with his speech?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I see you're history challenged just like Good Luck. When things reach a certain point either the prosperous willingly give or it is taken. That has happened, over and over, down through the ages. Those who don't share their cake lose their mind along with their head.

Would you be so kind as to give examples, quatifying your statement of:
"When things reach a certain point either the prosperous willingly give or it is taken. That has happened, over and over, down through the ages."

 

[NOVA]

I see you're history challenged just like Good Luck. When things reach a certain point either the prosperous willingly give or it is taken. That has happened, over and over, down through the ages. Those who don't share their cake lose their mind along with their head.

Those who don't share their cake lose their mind along with their head...really ? Are you off your fuckin' meds again ?