Should have been enforced long ago.

[USFREEDOM911]

APNewsBreak: MLB says managers need to cool it on arguing

Major League Baseball is telling managers to cool it on arguing balls and strikes, and warning them not to rely on replay help to bolster their beefs.

MLB executive Joe Torre sent a memo Friday to managers, general managers and assistant general managers that said: "This highly inappropriate conduct is detrimental to the game and must stop immediately."

The memo was obtained Saturday by The Associated Press.

"I'm still going to react to what I see in front of me," Detroit Tigers manager Brad Ausmus said Saturday night.

Torre, a Hall of Fame manager and former NL MVP, said skippers are increasingly relying on technology from the clubhouse or video room to argue from the dugout. Every pitch and play is monitored by teams in case they want to challenge for a replay review.

He called that "an express violation of the Replay Regulations, which state that 'on-field personnel in the dugout may not discuss any issue with individuals in their video review room using the dugout phone other than whether to challenge a play subject to video replay review.'"

"Although disagreements over ball and strike calls are natural, the prevalence of manager ejections simply cannot continue," Torre wrote. "This conduct not only delays the game, but it also has the propensity to undermine the integrity of the umpires on the field."

Ausmus was ejected for arguing balls and strikes and covered home plate with a sweat shirt earlier this season, and Boston manager John Farrell was tossed during an animated dispute alongside Red Sox slugger David Ortiz.

Earlier this month, Cubs manager Joe Maddon was ejected while arguing from the dugout.

And as recently as Friday night, Oakland manager Bob Melvin and San Francisco skipper Bruce Bochy got tossed for arguing balls and strikes along with players on their respective teams.

Torre concluded by advising that any manager or coach ejected for arguing balls and strikes "hereafter will be disciplined, including at least a fine."

"Joe's the boss, so I guess we'd better cool it," Cardinals manager Mike Matheny said. "There's just some days you can't stand over there and not say something. They're always making additions, and I get speeding the game up and sometimes that sort of thing slows it down, so it'll take a little while to walk through that and see exactly how to play it. But you can't take the emotion out of the game. Joe knows that as well as everybody, but I understand where he's coming from."

 

[CFM]

I can't say I've ever seen where a ball/strike call was changed due to arguing. However, to say that a coach can't question such a call implies that the umpire is correct and without fault on each and every call.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I can't say I've ever seen where a ball/strike call was changed due to arguing. However, to say that a coach can't question such a call implies that the umpire is correct and without fault on each and every call.

You don't understand that there is a procedure for asking questions and they don't involve screaming, trying to intimidate, or acting like a 3 year old.
But you are correct, Umpires balls and strikes are not open to question on the field.

Should an Umpire have the "right" to run up to the 3rd base coach, scream at him, and want to know why he made the dumbass call to send a runner home, when it was OBVIOUS that he wasn't going to make it?
or
Why can't an Umpire charge over to the dugout and scream at the coach for having his pitcher throw high and outside, when the count was 3 and 2?
or
How about the Umpire storming over to the dugout and telling the coach how stupid it was to have the batter swing on a pitch that was almost in the dirt on a 3 and 2 count?

 

[CFM]

You don't understand that there is a procedure for asking questions and they don't involve screaming, trying to intimidate, or acting like a 3 year old.
But you are correct, Umpires balls and strikes are not open to question on the field.

Should an Umpire have the "right" to run up to the 3rd base coach, scream at him, and want to know why he made the dumbass call to send a runner home, when it was OBVIOUS that he wasn't going to make it?
or
Why can't an Umpire charge over to the dugout and scream at the coach for having his pitcher throw high and outside, when the count was 3 and 2?
or
How about the Umpire storming over to the dugout and telling the coach how stupid it was to have the batter swing on a pitch that was almost in the dirt on a 3 and 2 count?

Didn't say yelling was involved. Someone can be questioned without yelling and arguing can occur without yelling.

No, an umpire can't do that. He/She is supposed to be non biased. However, a coach should be able to question an umpires call because he/she is biased and looking out for the players and the team. The coach making a bad call doesn't affect the umpire. An umpire making a bad call does affect the team. Apples and oranges.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Didn't say yelling was involved. Someone can be questioned without yelling and arguing can occur without yelling.

No, an umpire can't do that. He/She is supposed to be non biased. However, a coach should be able to question an umpires call because he/she is biased and looking out for the players and the team. The coach making a bad call doesn't affect the umpire. An umpire making a bad call does affect the team. Apples and oranges.

BS and you know it.
Take the number of times that you've seen a Coach run out on the field and start screaming and then compare it to the number of times that you seen a Coach ask for time and discuss the same situation.
Thanks for pointing out that the Umpire is supposed to have no bias, so isn't questioning his ability also questioning if he is biased?

And you're incorrect' because a Coach making a bad call does affect his team and has an affect on the outcome of the game.

Have you ever been an Umpire, even at the Minor level of Little League?

Since this is about MLB, I suggest you go to this link OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES / 2016 EDITION and read rule 8.02 (a).

 

[CFM]

BS and you know it.
Take the number of times that you've seen a Coach run out on the field and start screaming and then compare it to the number of times that you seen a Coach ask for time and discuss the same situation.
Thanks for pointing out that the Umpire is supposed to have no bias, so isn't questioning his ability also questioning if he is biased?

And you're incorrect' because a Coach making a bad call does affect his team and has an affect on the outcome of the game.

Have you ever been an Umpire, even at the Minor level of Little League?

Since this is about MLB, I suggest you go to this link OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES / 2016 EDITION and read rule 8.02 (a).

Never said a coaches bad call didn't affect his team. I said it didn't negatively affect the umpires as they are supposed to be non biased.

Also, didn't say a coach never yells at umpires but not every disagreement involves yelling.

I suggest umpires learn that they're not perfect and that someone questioning a call shouldn't hurt their feelings. If they believe they're correct, they shouldn't have a problem defending their decision.

Never umpired but have been an official at the high school level. Been yelled at by coaches and discussed things in a civil manner with coaches. Each time I could defend what I did. However, I won't dare say that I couldn't have been wrong.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Never said a coaches bad call didn't affect his team. I said it didn't negatively affect the umpires as they are supposed to be non biased.

Also, didn't say a coach never yells at umpires but not every disagreement involves yelling.

I suggest umpires learn that they're not perfect and that someone questioning a call shouldn't hurt their feelings. If they believe they're correct, they shouldn't have a problem defending their decision.

Never umpired but have been an official at the high school level. Been yelled at by coaches and discussed things in a civil manner with coaches. Each time I could defend what I did. However, I won't dare say that I couldn't have been wrong.

And an Umpires Judgement call doesn't affect the Coach either.

I wasn't of the understanding that you were referring to EVERY "disagreement".

Now you're projecting, unless you can show where it "hurts their feelings".

Not sure what you mean by you were an Official; but never Umpired; because now you're talking apples and oranges.

I've Umpired at all Little League levels and High School (Both Baseball and Softball), plus Adult Softball and if you're going to tell me that you told a Coach that you were wrong in your Judgement (not a rules question) and didn't then have more of your Judgement calls questioned; well then, either you didn't do it for very long or you only Umpired for people you knew.

Plus, no one said that a "disagreement" can't be discussed politely; but at some point the "questioning" needs to be controlled, unless you want to have 12 hour games all the time.

 

[CFM]

And an Umpires Judgement call doesn't affect the Coach either.

I wasn't of the understanding that you were referring to EVERY "disagreement".

Now you're projecting, unless you can show where it "hurts their feelings".

Not sure what you mean by you were an Official; but never Umpired; because now you're talking apples and oranges.

I've Umpired at all Little League levels and High School (Both Baseball and Softball), plus Adult Softball and if you're going to tell me that you told a Coach that you were wrong in your Judgement (not a rules question) and didn't then have more of your Judgement calls questioned; well then, either you didn't do it for very long or you only Umpired for people you knew.

Plus, no one said that a "disagreement" can't be discussed politely; but at some point the "questioning" needs to be controlled, unless you want to have 12 hour games all the time.

An umpire's bad judgment can affect the outcome of a game. I've also coached. Recently, I had a situation where the referee (basketball) called an official's timeout for an "injured" player on the other team. The player had been inadvertently hit in the nose and was holding his nose. No blood, etc. The part that bothered me wasn't that the referee called a timeout but he did it while my team still had possession of the ball. The RULES say that such a timeout can't be taken unless the team of the injured player has the ball or possession is in question (i.e. - a loose ball). I questioned the referee's call to which he took offense. He said the player was injured. I acknowledged that and asked him if he knew the rule about when he could call a time out. He, based on me having been there, got his feelings hurt that I questioned his judgment. I didn't question his judgment as it wasn't a judgment call. The rules say he can't call such a timeout at that point.

When I say official, it was a sport other than baseball/softball. It was high school JV football. We're called officials not umpires.

I never said I told a coach I was wrong on a judgment call. I said that I won't claim to have been perfect and that somewhere I'm sure I was wrong on judgment calls I made. For example, I'm sure I called a pass complete or incomplete when when he opposite was true. I would never tell that to a coach during the game. You lose credibility.

Coaches don't question every call, therefore, the 12 hour game example is ridiculous.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

An umpire's bad judgment can affect the outcome of a game. I've also coached. Recently, I had a situation where the referee (basketball) called an official's timeout for an "injured" player on the other team. The player had been inadvertently hit in the nose and was holding his nose. No blood, etc. The part that bothered me wasn't that the referee called a timeout but he did it while my team still had possession of the ball. The RULES say that such a timeout can't be taken unless the team of the injured player has the ball or possession is in question (i.e. - a loose ball). I questioned the referee's call to which he took offense. He said the player was injured. I acknowledged that and asked him if he knew the rule about when he could call a time out. He, based on me having been there, got his feelings hurt that I questioned his judgment. I didn't question his judgment as it wasn't a judgment call. The rules say he can't call such a timeout at that point.

When I say official, it was a sport other than baseball/softball. It was high school JV football. We're called officials not umpires.

I never said I told a coach I was wrong on a judgment call. I said that I won't claim to have been perfect and that somewhere I'm sure I was wrong on judgment calls I made. For example, I'm sure I called a pass complete or incomplete when when he opposite was true. I would never tell that to a coach during the game. You lose credibility.

Coaches don't question every call, therefore, the 12 hour game example is ridiculous.

Trying to compare your situation and arguing an Umpires Judgement are two different situations and a Coach's decision can have a bigger effect on the game

Is this going to return to Baseball or are we done; because strike and ball calls are Judgement and that's whaqt ws being discussed.

I'll give you an example.
I was doing a High School girls Softball game.
My partner never showed up and I was by myself.
At the plate conference I told the Coaches that I didn't know why my partner wasn't there and that I would be giving it my best, for the entire field.
Around the second or third inning, the batter swung at a pitch and caught the top of the ball.
It bounced to a stop, right in front of home plate.
The Catcher ran out, fielded the ball.
I had moved into position right behind her, say her start to make throw to first base and hesitated.
She then made a throw; but it was a little too high and the first basemen missed it.
I called a dead ball and called the runner out.
The runners coach immediately came out and started demanding to know why his runner was out.
I explained to him that the rules state, that the runner shall run the last half of the distance to first base, in the foul territory lane and if fail to do so and interfere with the throw to attempt to make an out, the runner shall be called out and that it was my judgement that by his runner failing to run in the running lane interfered with the throw to first base.
He's really irate now and begins telling me that he's coached for 20 years and had never heard of that rule.
I calmly told him that today we had both learned something new and one was that I had learned that he had coached for 20 years and he had learned that it was a rule.

He said he was going to look at the rule book and I told him that he could do that; but don't bring the rule book onto the field, while the game was underway.

He went back and for the rest of the game he sat there and kept looking at the rules, from front to back and then back to front.
I figured he had found the rule and was now looking for a "loophole" that would override my decision.

The rest of the game went pretty uneventful.

After the game he came out and apologized.
He said he had found the rule and that I was right.
I told him that there were no hard feelings and that part of my job is to explain the rules, when there was confusion.

He went on to say that this was the first time that anyone had ever called a runner out and that it took him by surprise.
He also said that at his next practice he would make sure the girls understood what they were supposed to do.

I told him to also explain to them that if the ball is being thrown to first base where the runner isn't interfering, like from the second basemen to first then the rule doesn't come into play and that it usually doesn't come into play as long as the throw isn't from behind the runner.

He shook my hand, told me I had done a really good job doing the game by myself and he hoped to see me doing more of his games.

I have way more examples.

 

[CFM]

Trying to compare your situation and arguing an Umpires Judgement are two different situations.

Is this going to return to Baseball or are we done?

Not different because it's a different sport. The basketball official felt I was claiming his judgment when all I did was questioning whether or not he knew the RULES.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Not different because it's a different sport. The basketball official felt I was claiming his judgment when all I did was questioning whether or not he knew the RULES.

The Officials I've known, from you voicing my knowledge of the rules would have you viewing the rest of the game on video; because you would have been invited to leave the game area / building.

 

[CFM]

Trying to compare your situation and arguing an Umpires Judgement are two different situations and a Coach's decision can have a bigger effect on the game

Is this going to return to Baseball or are we done; because strike and ball calls are Judgement and that's whaqt ws being discussed.

I'll give you an example.
I was doing a High School girls Softball game.
My partner never showed up and I was by myself.
At the plate conference I told the Coaches that I didn't know why my partner wasn't there and that I would be giving it my best, for the entire field.
Around the second or third inning, the batter swung at a pitch and caught the top of the ball.
It bounced to a stop, right in front of home plate.
The Catcher ran out, fielded the ball.
I had moved into position right behind her, say her start to make throw to first base and hesitated.
She then made a throw; but it was a little too high and the first basemen missed it.
I called a dead ball and called the runner out.
The runners coach immediately came out and started demanding to know why his runner was out.
I explained to him that the rules state, that the runner shall run the last half of the distance to first base, in the foul territory lane and if fail to do so and interfere with the throw to attempt to make an out, the runner shall be called out and that it was my judgement that by his runner failing to run in the running lane interfered with the throw to first base.
He's really irate now and begins telling me that he's coached for 20 years and had never heard of that rule.
I calmly told him that today we had both learned something new and one was that I had learned that he had coached for 20 years and he had learned that it was a rule.

He said he was going to look at the rule book and I told him that he could do that; but don't bring the rule book onto the field, while the game was underway.

He went back and for the rest of the game he sat there and kept looking at the rules, from front to back and then back to front.
I figured he had found the rule and was now looking for a "loophole" that would override my decision.

The rest of the game went pretty uneventful.

After the game he came out and apologized.
He said he had found the rule and that I was right.
I told him that there were no hard feelings and that part of my job is to explain the rules, when there was confusion.

He went on to say that this was the first time that anyone had ever called a runner out and that it took him by surprise.
He also said that at his next practice he would make sure the girls understood what they were supposed to do.

I told him to also explain to them that if the ball is being thrown to first base where the runner isn't interfering, like from the second basemen to first then the rule doesn't come into play and that it usually doesn't come into play as long as the throw isn't from behind the runner.

He shook my hand, told me I had done a really good job doing the game by myself and he hoped to see me doing more of his games.

I have way more examples.

Judgment calls happen in EVERY sport. You can't discount any of them because they aren't baseball.

You have way more examples? That's debatable.

 

[CFM]

The Officials I've known, from you voicing my knowledge of the rules would have you viewing the rest of the game on video; because you would have been invited to leave the game area / building.

Thanks for proving my claim about him getting his feelings hurt because someone knew the rules more than the one calling the game. By the way, his decision cost us the game. At the time he incorrectly called the time out, based on the rules, one of my players took and made a shot. The game went into overtime as a result of him calling off the basket. We lost in overtime. The thing is had he not INCORRECTLY made the call he did, the game wouldn't have gone into overtime. We would have won in regulation.

If someone is so thin skinned they can't take someone correcting their action when the rules say what they say, they don't need to be wearing the zebra shirt. They need to be at the zoo feeding the zebras.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Judgment calls happen in EVERY sport. You can't discount any of them because they aren't baseball.

You have way more examples? That's debatable.

Why would my examples be debatable?? :dunno;
It's not like it would change what's already occurred.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Thanks for proving my claim about him getting his feelings hurt because someone knew the rules more than the one calling the game. By the way, his decision cost us the game. At the time he incorrectly called the time out, based on the rules, one of my players took and made a shot. The game went into overtime as a result of him calling off the basket. We lost in overtime. The thing is had he not INCORRECTLY made the call he did, the game wouldn't have gone into overtime. We would have won in regulation.

If someone is so thin skinned they can't take someone correcting their action when the rules say what they say, they don't need to be wearing the zebra shirt. They need to be at the zoo feeding the zebras.

I see now.
You're a coach who knows EVERYTHING more then everyone else.

You know, with that knowledge you should put into becoming an Official and then you would be able to allow the rest of the schools your expertise.
Just think how they all would benefit.
Why you would probably be voted as the best Official in your first season and eventually become President of the States Association.

Please post the clippings from the Newspaper.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Thanks for proving my claim about him getting his feelings hurt because someone knew the rules more than the one calling the game. By the way, his decision cost us the game. At the time he incorrectly called the time out, based on the rules, one of my players took and made a shot. The game went into overtime as a result of him calling off the basket. We lost in overtime. The thing is had he not INCORRECTLY made the call he did, the game wouldn't have gone into overtime. We would have won in regulation.

If someone is so thin skinned they can't take someone correcting their action when the rules say what they say, they don't need to be wearing the zebra shirt. They need to be at the zoo feeding the zebras.

Since you've been so adamant about this, I googled the rule:

Injury Time-Out

In case of an injury to a player, the official may stop play. If the ball is in play when the injury occurs, the officials shall wait to stop the game until the team with the injury gets possession of the ball. Exception: when necessary to protect an injured player, the officials may stop play immediately.



I have somewhat of a similar story, of a High School baseball coach who was acting like you, if you want to hear it.

 

[CFM]

Since you've been so adamant about this, I googled the rule:

Injury Time-Out

In case of an injury to a player, the official may stop play. If the ball is in play when the injury occurs, the officials shall wait to stop the game until the team with the injury gets possession of the ball. Exception: when necessary to protect an injured player, the officials may stop play immediately.



I have somewhat of a similar story, of a High School baseball coach who was acting like you, if you want to hear it.

Source of the rule? I read the rule book that applied to the league where I was coaching and there is no such exception.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Source of the rule? I read the rule book that applied to the league where I was coaching and there is no such exception.

http://basketball.lifetips.com/tip/47536/basketball-rules/rules-general/injury-time-out.html

I'm beginning to think that this wasn't High School and was just some kind of area league, am I correct?

Before you start screaming and saying something that will get the MODs to call a technical foul on you.

High School Basketball Rules on Time Outs

Official Time Out

In certain situations, game officials may call a time out that is not charged to either team. For example, if there is an injured player on the floor, or if there are dangerous playing conditions or a discrepancy in the official score, one or more officials may stop the clock and call an official time out to rectify the situation. A loose ball that causes an unusual delay may be another official reason for a time out. If an official stops play for an injured player, and the coach comes out onto the floor to attend to the player, the coach must call a time out to keep the player in the game. Otherwise, the coach must substitute for that player.

 

[CFM]

http://basketball.lifetips.com/tip/47536/basketball-rules/rules-general/injury-time-out.html

I'm beginning to think that this wasn't High School and was just some kind of area league, am I correct?

Before you start screaming and saying something that will get the MODs to call a technical foul on you.

High School Basketball Rules on Time Outs

Official Time Out

In certain situations, game officials may call a time out that is not charged to either team. For example, if there is an injured player on the floor, or if there are dangerous playing conditions or a discrepancy in the official score, one or more officials may stop the clock and call an official time out to rectify the situation. A loose ball that causes an unusual delay may be another official reason for a time out. If an official stops play for an injured player, and the coach comes out onto the floor to attend to the player, the coach must call a time out to keep the player in the game. Otherwise, the coach must substitute for that player.

My example was high school league but not state associated high school league. That means when I questioned the incompetent referee, I knew more than he did about the rules and he did nothing more than get his little feelings hurt.

It seems the following year that this particular referee didn't make a return to the league. Apparently many of the coaches made official complaints about his incompetence and he didn't return to do something for which he had little to no knowledge of the rules.

Had the same referee call dead balls and give the other team possession when it the side or top of the backboard without hitting the frame holding it. The rule clearly states that it's not a dead ball unless it hits the frame. Having been a referee, I understand that no one is perfect when it comes to calls. However, when making one, don't get your feelings hurt if someone calls on it.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

My example was high school league but not state associated high school league. That means when I questioned the incompetent referee, I knew more than he did about the rules and he did nothing more than get his little feelings hurt.

It seems the following year that this particular referee didn't make a return to the league. Apparently many of the coaches made official complaints about his incompetence and he didn't return to do something for which he had little to no knowledge of the rules.

Had the same referee call dead balls and give the other team possession when it the side or top of the backboard without hitting the frame holding it. The rule clearly states that it's not a dead ball unless it hits the frame. Having been a referee, I understand that no one is perfect when it comes to calls. However, when making one, don't get your feelings hurt if someone calls on it.

That's what I thought; because what you're saying is that it was High School age players; but it didn't fall under the USSSA rules and your league just made up their own rules.
You have a right to question a call, in the right way; but it seems you pulled a Bobby Knight and acted like an ass.
I hope you were ejected, for being an ass.