Should you still tip 20% for bad service? You’re not a bad liberal for answering no

That's still tipping culture.

It just eliminates the need for good service.
I'm not sure how you get around it. A lot of restaurants don't last a long time and many that do survive don't make the owners rich. So it's not like we're talking about people making hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and won't pay their workers a minimum wage.

So we either tip or it comes built into the cost.
 
I'm not sure how you get around it. A lot of restaurants don't last a long time and many that do survive don't make the owners rich. So it's not like we're talking about people making hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and won't pay their workers a minimum wage.

So we either tip or it comes built into the cost.
Pay the employees a living wage, even if you have to raise prices.

Don't allow tipping.
 
Pay the employees a living wage, even if you have to raise prices.

Don't allow tipping.
Maybe we're talking past each other, or I'm not understanding, but when I said one option is to raise prices you said that was still tipping culture.

(The big reason restaurants don't want to raise prices is because people will look at menu's online and if your prices are really high then they won't want to come. So unless every single restaurant does is it that way, you are at a big disadvantage price wise if you put it in the increased price of food up front)
 
Maybe we're talking past each other, or I'm not understanding, but when I said one option is to raise prices you said that was still tipping culture.

(The big reason restaurants don't want to raise prices is because people will look at menu's online and if your prices are really high then they won't want to come. So unless every single restaurant does is it that way, you are at a big disadvantage price wise if you put it in the increased price of food up front)
You said tacking on fees.

I'm saying raise the menu prices and don't charge fees or allow tips.
 
You said tacking on fees.

I'm saying raise the menu prices and don't charge fees or allow tips.
In San Francisco, of the one's that do this, some tack on an automatic 20% while others just raise it into the cost of the food. The reason most don't want to do the latter is what I wrote above. To make that universal you'd pretty much have to have a gov't mandate.
 
In San Francisco, of the one's that do this, some tack on an automatic 20% while others just raise it into the cost of the food. The reason most don't want to do the latter is what I wrote above. To make that universal you'd pretty much have to have a gov't mandate.
The government could easily requite servers to be paid minimum wage.
 
The government could easily requite servers to be paid minimum wage.
They certainly could.

But this article wasn't about should we end tipping. It was about the supposed politics behind how much people tip. I live here and I've never heard this discussion and I'm around mostly people that lean left politically (it's clearly possible I don't run in elite enough circles).

So I posted curious if anyone else views how much they tip based on their political leanings.
 
'Tipping' was an initial way to show some service workers that excellent service gets rewarded. Then, with the help of government, business was able to avoid a normal minimum wage obligation to those service workers because they were also getting paid by their customers. Now, the culture has been snagged by many different types of business, especially other food service oriented businesses that are simply looking to exploit their employees.
 
Tipping is highly personal, and I do not judge anyone's decisions.

I think of it like a taxi cab ride. As long as the basic service is provided, no matter how badly, I am required to pay the meter. If a cab driver gets me to my destination, or some approximation of that, I made a contract to pay what is on the meter.

The problem with serving staff is the base wages are so low that they are no longer what is expected. What is expected is some tip. It is no longer a tip, but the expected pay. We can argue whether this is good or not, but it is... So therefore as long as there was some basic service, I believe some tip is owed. Without a tip, many servers would be looking at a near zero, or even negative pay.
 
People who do not tip, or who tip with "prayer cards" should state that upfront. They are being very dishonest by implying a tip is coming, and then not paying the tacitly agreed upon tip.
 
While I enjoy food I'm definitely not a "foodie". Maybe one of the reasons is I didn't realize you were supposed to view eating out from a progressive, moderate or conservative perspective?

I basically always tip 20%. I've actually had someone call me cheap fore for doing so (I guess 22% - 25% is now standard?) But that aside I was unaware I was signaling my progressive politics by always tipping 20%.

For board liberals/progressives do you view tipping this way? Among your circle of friends do you have this discussion? Or is this just a San Francisco thing?



Should you still tip 20% for bad service? You’re not a bad liberal for answering no

Tipping big even when the service is bad? Progressive friends: We’re making fools of ourselves


Over the years, the cliche that you are what you eat has started to apply to not just nutrition but to personality, to lifestyle and to politics. Liberals drink plant-based milk and conservatives stick to whole. Saying you love tacos on your dating profile signals that you’re down-to-earth yet cultured. Ordering Sweetgreen suggests you’re a certain kind of taste-minded “millennial yuppie striver.”

It’s silly, it’s largely low-stakes, and like many stereotypes, there are some elements of truth alongside plenty of dubious conjecture. But as a left-leaning lady who’s been immersed in the food world for years, there’s one recent development in this arena that I can no longer stomach: Accepting bad restaurant service — and still paying a big tip — has become a way to signal that you have progressive politics.

And it’s gotten out of hand.

The attitude started during the pandemic lockdown when people began treating dining out as a civic duty of sorts. Showering struggling mom-and-pop restaurants and their staffs with huge tips became a performative display of appreciation second only to those 7 p.m. clangs for health care workers.

God bless! Tipping exorbitantly and relaxing standards around restaurant service during that time was a tangible way to differentiate ourselves from those “Karen” customers in conservative-leaning states that eschewed masks, lockdowns and basic safety protocols so they could feel normal again. Food-loving liberals would never stoop to such behavior at such a rough time. They were understanding. They were champions of the marginalized. I was one of these people, crafting guides that encouraged diners to adjust their expectations and to tip extra.

But four years later and long after lockdowns ended, this attitude remains — as does the fear that coming off as a problem customer makes you a bad liberal. Lackluster service is mentioned in a whisper if mentioned at all.

Many of my friends and colleagues working in food media have privately admitted to me that they’re hesitant to comment on mediocre service out of fear of backlash. I understand why. After Chronicle restaurant critic MacKenzie Chung Fegan recently wrote about a server taking her dessert order and then turning up the lights before she finished, many locals pushed back on Instagram. How dare she mention that the restaurant had flaws? She was the rude one! Sounds like she needs to work in a restaurant to understand labor conditions!

The conversation around tipping particularly illustrates the anxiety around being a “good customer.” You must tip at least 10% on takeout and at least $1 at coffee shops, etiquette guides declare. In-house diners should offer a minimum of 20% — even if service is atrocious. Not tipping the right amount at the right time for the right service (whew!) might mean there’s something wrong with you morally. You might even be a “monster.”

Meanwhile, time limits on dining tables have become stricter and, after a successful lobbying from the dining industry, service fees that often mask the full price of a meal on a menu are here to stay. QR code menus are still commonplace — often meaning less attention from the staff you are expected to tip for service — and the outdoor street seating that once seemed charming now often feels cheap.

In other words, trying to dine well is becoming less fun and more expensive. All the while, etiquette guides say we should keep our mouths shut and tip extra for good measure, lest we reveal ourselves to be villains of modern life.

I get why some folks say you should tip even if the experience isn’t up to par. Different people have different standards, and it’s not uncommon for servers to be punished for something out of their control, from an error in the kitchen to the server’s gender or race. In general, when we dine out we should absolutely err on the side of tipping, and remember that we are interacting with real human beings.

But a blanket 20% tip for bad service? Really?

Hospitality is an art form, and at its best, it’s seamless — you won’t notice whether the service was good or bad until you’re done and realize that you barely noticed time passing. Your water is always full, your questions always answered, your needs consistently met before you even realize you have them. It’s what makes dining out an experience instead of just consuming calories, and it’s what makes so many restaurants feel like special places to hang out. Deciding hospitality no longer matters turns dining from a way to witness craft to a mere financial transaction. Isn’t it something we should still value?

I know I’m not alone in my frustration. And it’s servers who may ultimately pay the price for lowered standards, the pressure to tip in more circumstances and extensive guilt-tripping from well-meaning etiquette guides.

A survey from the personal finance company Bankrate found that the percentage of people who tip regularly at restaurants is declining, which is especially troublesome in states where servers don’t make minimum wage without tips. In San Francisco, where labor laws are stronger and servers make minimum wage before gratuity, a survey from restaurant platform Toast found that the city had some of the worst tippers in the country.

Progressive friends: We’re making fools of ourselves!
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/working-for-tips-18264969.php
As we saw with how quickly California legislators backtracked on service fees when confronted by lobbyists, restaurants are part of an industry — and industries don’t change without pressure.

Sometimes a server is not some sort of beleaguered anonymous worker who needs your sympathies. Sometimes a restaurant owner is not a down-on-their-luck proprietor who deserves your unconditional support. Sometimes they are just bad at their job. It’s OK to treat them as such.


Wait staff gets paid a pittance.
A basic 20% tip is essentially a major part of their salary, so if you're not adding it to the bill,
you're essentially stealing. If you don't like the service, don't go back,
just as if you didn't like the food,
but you've got to pay your bill and that includes the tip.

Frankly, I think the system is foolish.
Pay the staff properly, raise the menu prices accordingly, and end the tipping system.
For now, though, not tipping, as I said, is stealing.
 
If you tip poorly or not all all lets just be honest. You are pathetic. Just stay home or do drive throughs. Those people have a tough job and depend on tips. If you disagree with it fine. Tell the management or the world but dont punish the low man/woman on the totem pole......
 
If you tip poorly or not all all lets just be honest. You are pathetic. Just stay home or do drive throughs. Those people have a tough job and depend on tips. If you disagree with it fine. Tell the management or the world but dont punish the low man/woman on the totem pole......
I think the gist of the article is geared towards those who may regularly tip 20% but if they receive bad service, don't. (as oppose to someone who may just be cheap and never tip 20% regardless of the level of service)
 
The government could easily requite servers to be paid minimum wage.
In San Francisco, and I believe other places, they do. But obviously waiters aren't taking the job to make minimum wage so they still rely on tips for the bulk of their income (at least at the higher end establishments).
 
Back
Top