Solyndra Plant Right Out Of Atlas Shrugged...

[Cancel 2016.2]

I notice you spoke nothing about China's subsidies being 20 times larger than the U.S.

China has been subsidizing their alt energy sector for over five years. That is not what caused Solyndra to go under. It is the fact that silicon prices came tumbling down that made Solyndra even more economically nonviable. The problem for Obama is that the peak of silicon prices was in early 2008. The drop off in pricing began in 2008 and continued into 2009.... PRIOR to the decision to provide a $535 Million loan to a company that relied on the high silicon prices of its competitors (Solyndra tech is not silicon based) in order to be competitive.

We are also not talking about a minor decline in silicon pricing either. By June of 2009, silicon prices had dropped by almost 80%.... 80%.... the loan was granted in SEPT 2009. It NEVER should have been made.

That said, I am not stating that China's subsidization doesn't also play a role in why Solyndra failed, but it too was KNOWN long before the loan was made.

 

[Bonestorm]

I am saying that you are complaining about how they couldn't have known, yet the Bush Admin dudes flat said what happened 2 years before it did and said this was a risky venture and not to play with Solyndra...

Saying that nobody could have known is BS. Somebody knew, warned, and was ignored.

They wasted our money on whistling robots that they were warned would not be necessary in a little more than 2 years... They wasted our money on real estate in one of the most expensive markets that exist in the world, even though it was known they would fail, and predicted that the failure would come pretty much exactly when it happened.

Then you try to blame others for their failure, using the very excuses that I listed at the beginning... "Who could have known?"

First, there are always unforeseen issues for every new start business out there. Second, it was predicted, extremely accurately, somebody knew, including those who got the loans. When the Bush Admin started slowing down the process requesting a deeper look they started trying to immediately get them to do it without any checks... Later e-mails flat state that their business plan made no sense, one said: to sell for $3 what took them $6 to make wasn't a viable plan... They then projected the failure of the company incredibly accurately while recommending that the government not get into this risky venture....

Actually, the review board at the DOE merely said that it any decision regarding a recommendation was premature. It didn't recommend for or against it on that basis. So claiming that the "Bush Administration" recommended against it is not accurate. You might want to clarify this in the future.

 

[Damocles]

Actually, the review board at the DOE merely said that it any decision regarding a recommendation was premature. It didn't recommend for or against it on that basis. So claiming that the "Bush Administration" recommended against it is not accurate. You might want to clarify this in the future.

Ah... good enough. The predictions of failure were there, the e-mails about the business plan full of fail was there... I'm good with that. They punted on the recommendation. Cool. Who could have known that with all that was against them the next administration would jump on the chance to put half a bil into a company predicted to fail?

 

[Bonestorm]

Ah... good enough. The predictions of failure were there, the e-mails about the business plan full of fail was there... I'm good with that. They punted on the recommendation. Cool. Who could have known that with all that was against them the next administration would jump on the chance to put half a bil into a company predicted to fail?

Well, to be clear, the predictions about Solyndra running out of cash were made in August 2009, well after Bush left office. The most you can say is that the Bush Administration thought it premature to act on the application and that there was disagreement in the Obama Administration as to whether the loan guarantee should be approved.

Shocking stuff.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, to be clear, the predictions about Solyndra running out of cash were made in August 2009, well after Bush left office. The most you can say is that the Bush Administration thought it premature to act on the application and that there was disagreement in the Obama Administration as to whether the loan guarantee should be approved.

Shocking stuff.

Given what happened to silicon prices from its peak to where it was in June of 2009... that loan NEVER should have been given to a company that relied on its competitors having to pay high silicon prices. Yet an 80% drop in silicon pricing didn't disuade the Obama admin from sinking $535 million into a firm that JUST COINCIDENTALLY is tied to the charitable family foundation of a major Dem Donor.

If I recall, yet another $700m was just sunk into yet another solar firm tied to Pelosi.

 

[Bonestorm]

Given what happened to silicon prices from its peak to where it was in June of 2009... that loan NEVER should have been given to a company that relied on its competitors having to pay high silicon prices. Yet an 80% drop in silicon pricing didn't disuade the Obama admin from sinking $535 million into a firm that JUST COINCIDENTALLY is tied to the charitable family foundation of a major Dem Donor.

If I recall, yet another $700m was just sunk into yet another solar firm tied to Pelosi.

Whether the loan should have been given at the time is a valid question and I don't know the answer. What I know, is that the DOE approved the loan notwithstanding the disagreement. I also note that there is nothing remarkable about the DOE approval or issues relating to pressure on DOE to approve the loan. That process had run its course and the loan guarantee was approved. The issues of political pressure related to the review by the OMB. So, I'm a little skeptical of your back of the napkin analysis.

Also, the fact that alternative energy firms have ties to Democrats is entirely unremarkable to me, what with "Drill Baby, Drill" and global warming denailism and all

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I notice that he spoke nothing about the showers... Which is, quite literally, the thing which reminds me most about Atlas Shrugged. Well, that and the constant, "Who could have known? It's not my fault!" excuses...

To be honest with you Damo.....you could probably make that same analogy with just about any company that has gone out of business.

 

[Damocles]

Well, to be clear, the predictions about Solyndra running out of cash were made in August 2009, well after Bush left office. The most you can say is that the Bush Administration thought it premature to act on the application and that there was disagreement in the Obama Administration as to whether the loan guarantee should be approved.

Shocking stuff.

Ah yes, the e-mail of the "will run out of money"... However it came before August, at least the one I am speaking of did... Although the Obama administration received the same warnings that caused the Bush Admin to punt...

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/17/solyndra-pressured-bush-wh-for-approval-in-january-2009/

The e-mail exchanges show Solyndra pushing after Bush Admin's decision to punt the decision into the next admin, "angry" exchanges caused some of the officials to pretty much say, 'Time to stop talking to these guys.' (not a quote, a paraphrase). I understand why people want to blame this on Bush. The unveiling in September was prewarned that they would run out of money, the idea that nobody could foresee this is utter BS. They were warned, they just chose to guarantee those loans anyway.

 

[Bonestorm]

Ah yes, the e-mail of the "will run out of money"... However it came before August, at least the one I am speaking of did... Although the Obama administration received the same warnings that caused the Bush Admin to punt...

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/17/solyndra-pressured-bush-wh-for-approval-in-january-2009/

The e-mail exchanges show Solyndra pushing after Bush Admin's decision to punt the decision into the next admin, "angry" exchanges caused some of the officials to pretty much say, 'Time to stop talking to these guys.' (not a quote, a paraphrase). I understand why people want to blame this on Bush. The unveiling in September was prewarned that they would run out of money, the idea that nobody could foresee this is utter BS. They were warned, they just chose to guarantee those loans anyway.

Well, link to the Bush Administration official warning that Solyndra would run out of money by September 2011. The link you provided doesn't show that. It shows that Solyndra executives were becoming impatient in January 2009 when the DOE declined to take action on its application.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Whether the loan should have been given at the time is a valid question and I don't know the answer. What I know, is that the DOE approved the loan notwithstanding the disagreement. I also note that there is nothing remarkable about the DOE approval or issues relating to pressure on DOE to approve the loan. That process had run its course and the loan guarantee was approved. The issues of political pressure related to the review by the OMB. So, I'm a little skeptical of your back of the napkin analysis.

Also, the fact that alternative energy firms have ties to Democrats is entirely unremarkable to me, what with "Drill Baby, Drill" and global warming denailism and all

So one of the major components to their competitors product drops 80% in value.... that little tidbit shouldn't have been picked up on?

Having ties is unremarkable. Having ties that lead to tax payer backed loans.... that needs to be told.

and yes, we can all see you lame ass attempt to try and justify this with your 'u a denialist' bullshit. I suppose you like the other fear mongers are ignoring the latest from CERN? right? CONSENSUS!!!!

 

[Bonestorm]

So one of the major components to their competitors product drops 80% in value.... that little tidbit shouldn't have been picked up on?

I don't know whether it was picked up on or not. Like I said, I don't know whether the loan should have been approved. But DOE approved it notwithstanding reservations among some of its people looking at it. And the accusations regarding pressuring approval relate to pressuring the OMB, not the DOE, which had already approved it.

Having ties is unremarkable. Having ties that lead to tax payer backed loans.... that needs to be told.

Well, you're just taking evidence of ties as evidence of ties that lead to tax payer backed loans.

and yes, we can all see you lame ass attempt to try and justify this with your 'u a denialist' bullshit. I suppose you like the other fear mongers are ignoring the latest from CERN? right? CONSENSUS!!!!

I don't care about your personal opinions. I'm simply stating the obvious.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I don't know whether it was picked up on or not. Like I said, I don't know whether the loan should have been approved. But DOE approved it notwithstanding reservations among some of its people looking at it. And the accusations regarding pressuring approval relate to pressuring the OMB, not the DOE, which had already approved it.

I don't disagree with the above. Especially the part about you being clueless as to whether the loan should be approved.

Well, you're just taking evidence of ties as evidence of ties that lead to tax payer backed loans.

Yes. I am sure it is just a coincidence that two $500 million+ loans just happened to land with these two companies. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I don't care about your personal opinions. I'm simply stating the obvious.

That you are a global warming fear monger? You do realize just how stupid it makes you look to call people who disagree 'denialists' at this point.... do you not?

 

[Bonestorm]

I don't disagree with the above. Especially the part about you being clueless as to whether the loan should be approved.

FARGLE BARGLE.

Yes. I am sure it is just a coincidence that two $500 million+ loans just happened to land with these two companies. Nothing to see here. Move along.

So, the ties both are "unremarkable" and evidence of corruption. OK. That makes sense.

That you are a global warming fear monger? You do realize just how stupid it makes you look to call people who disagree 'denialists' at this point.... do you not?

I realize that calling someone a denialist makes me look "stupid" among a certain group of people (namely denialists). I couldn't care less what that group of people thinks of me. I do not hold them in high regard.

 

[Rune]

I realize that calling someone a denialist makes me look "stupid" among a certain group of people (namely denialists). I couldn't care less what that group of people thinks of me. I do not hold them in high regard.

Thanks, couldn't have said it better.

 

[Damocles]

Well, link to the Bush Administration official warning that Solyndra would run out of money by September 2011. The link you provided doesn't show that. It shows that Solyndra executives were becoming impatient in January 2009 when the DOE declined to take action on its application.

Which is what I said. The e-mail that they were going to run out of money came after the 20th (when Obama took office), but the reality is by that time they'd already punted. The full-time bureaucrats (the same ones that pretty much turned it back and said that it wasn't fleshed out enough to the Bush Admin who then punted) recommended a "no", saying it would run out of money, the Obama administration overrode them...

It isn't hard to follow that particular path.

 

[Damocles]

And none of that changes that there really is no need to have whistling robots, buy in the most expensive real estate market ever to build, to make a building with "spa-like showers"...

And they should quit with the fricking Atlas Shrugged "who could've known" excuses.

If you don't like Ayn Rand, stop proving her right.

 

[icedancer2theend]

Crony socialism

It’s as if Solyndra never happened. The Obama Administration is giving $737 million to a Tonopah Solar, a subsidiary of California-based SolarReserve. PCG is an investment partner with SolarReserve. Nancy Pelosi’s brother-in-law happens to be the number two man at PCG

The Pelosi connection


This puts what Brown signed into legislation in a whole new light. Solar Reserve is the kind of company CA citizens will be forced to purchase 33% of their energy from.

 

[Bonestorm]

Which is what I said. The e-mail that they were going to run out of money came after the 20th (when Obama took office), but the reality is by that time they'd already punted. The full-time bureaucrats (the same ones that pretty much turned it back and said that it wasn't fleshed out enough to the Bush Admin who then punted) recommended a "no", saying it would run out of money, the Obama administration overrode them...

It isn't hard to follow that particular path.

No one recommended a "no." That's just a lie. I've already called you on it once. And the same board that threw the application back for additional information approved the loan guarantee once that information was submitted.

You misinformation and outright lying really gets tiring.

 

[Damocles]

No one recommended a "no." That's just a lie. I've already called you on it once. And the same board that threw the application back for additional information approved the loan guarantee once that information was submitted.

You misinformation and outright lying really gets tiring.

What gets tiring is pointing out that they, after it was approved in March (again not Bush), reviewed the business plan and pointed out that it was a loss without major changes and this warning was ignored and the money was given regardless... That recommendation really did happen. Even if you say it didn't.

Reality: The Administration was warned and they gave the money anyway. After doing so and, according to predictions (amazingly accurate ones), the company failed. At that point the Administration tried to blame Bush even for this by saying they started the application process during the Bush Administration. This is just another attempt for the Administration to blame anybody but their own decisions for anything at all that goes wrong and shows that their spendthrift policies are having a negative net effect by increasing the debt problem that caused the issues we are having at this time.

You can reject that reality as much as you want, but it is there. Warnings and all.

The Obama Administration's Default Position: "It's not my fault! Who could have known <insert excuse here>?!"

They prove Ayn Rand's amazing predictive power with each excuse.

 

[Bonestorm]

When Damo gets called out for being a liar, his move is to trot out an intentionally vague diatribe that is so lacking in particulars that no one part of it can be identified as a lie, notwithstanding that the whole thing is intentionally misleading. It's pretty funny. He's also very good at it.

If Damo isn't a paid hack (or former paid hack), I'll eat my hat.