Splitoff from libertarian party

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
http://bostontea.us/node

In the 30 years the LP has existed, there has never been a splinter group, to my knowledge. But now that the LP has decided to allow individual members more freedom to choose policies that will actually get them to win, a splinter group has emerged with the same unreasonable, ridiculous positions that are never going to win them anything. If the libertarian party can't survive a change to allow more moderation and diversity in the party it doesn't exist, and these people are idiots. They could've just ran under the normal libertarian label, nothing was preventing them from it. Yet, they had to splinter off and form a stupid unwinnable party because of it. A big thumbs down for them.
 
http://bostontea.us/node

In the 30 years the LP has existed, there has never been a splinter group, to my knowledge. But now that the LP has decided to allow individual members more freedom to choose policies that will actually get them to win, a splinter group has emerged with the same unreasonable, ridiculous positions that are never going to win them anything. If the libertarian party can't survive a change to allow more moderation and diversity in the party it doesn't exist, and these people are idiots. They could've just ran under the normal libertarian label, nothing was preventing them from it. Yet, they had to splinter off and form a stupid unwinnable party because of it. A big thumbs down for them.
LOL! Welcome to the world of extremist politics.

Been there, done that and have thrown the t-shirt away. We lefties call 'em "splitters" and other, less kind things. You ever see the movie The Life of Brian? One of the many things I love about that flick is how absolutely perfectly they captured the essence life in a far left party -- in their case, the People's Front of Judea.

When your party is made up of genuinely passionate people, this kind of thing is inevitable. Seriously. Don't take the red pill just because it's getting a little rough.
 
Splinter groups and "extremism"

Watermark,

You write:

"In the 30 years the LP has existed, there has never been a splinter group, to my knowledge."

Actually, there have been several. In the late 1990s, a "new" Libertarian Party split off from the existing one in Arizona, and ended up replacing the existing one as the national party's affiliate ... but not getting the real Arizona LP's ballot line -- so while the rest of America saw Harry Browne's name on the LP's presidential ballot line, Arizonans saw L. Neil Smith's. The splinter group eventually managed to get the courts to declare them the "real" Arizona LP.

I'm pretty sure the Personal Choice Party is also an LP "splinter." They ran a 2004 presidential slate (Charles Jay for president, porn star Marilyn Chambers for VP), and routinely run candidates in Utah.

I believe there are two or three different "Libertarian Party" variants in Florida.

And so on, and so forth.

Also, the LP has existed for 35 years.

"But now that the LP has decided to allow individual members more freedom to choose policies that will actually get them to win"

I'm not sure what you mean by this. There's never been anything to prevent individual LP members from advocating whatever positions they wanted -- nor is there really much evidence yet for the proposition that the actions taken at the LP's 2006 national convention, which were the proximate cause for the founding of the Boston Tea Party, will result in any surge of electoral victories for LP candidates.

I do know a little bit about this. I've managed two winning Libertarian campaigns for local office and I'm a federal appointed officeholder myself. It may be that I know a little more than you thnk about what it takes for libertarians to win elections (oh, yeah -- I'm also the founder of the Boston Tea Party).


"a splinter group has emerged with the same unreasonable, ridiculous positions that are never going to win them anything."

If you're going to criticize a party's positions, you might want to actually look into them first. In point of fact, at least two of the five points in the Boston Tea Party's program are MORE MODERATE than the traditional, or even current, LP stance. The LP calls for the repeal of all drug laws. The BTP calls for the legalization of marijuana and hemp. The LP calls for an end to the income tax. The BTP calls for regularized "bottom up" cuts to that tax. The other three points of the BTP's program aren't especially radical by current standards: Withdrawal from Iraq, repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act, and repeal of the "REAL ID" national identification scheme.

"If the libertarian party can't survive a change to allow more moderation and diversity in the party"

Do you have any particular reason for believing that the changes which occurred happened for the purpose of "allowing more moderation and diversity in the party," or that they will have that effect?

Right now, as small as it is, the Boston Tea Party has members ranging from anarchists to left-libertarians to conservative "libertarian Republicans." Our litmus test -- endorsement of a one-sentence, means-based platform that dictates direction but not distance -- is much less restrictive than the LP's membership pledge which, read in anything resembling historical context and original intent, binds its takers to either Rothbardian anarcho-capitalism or Randian extreme minarchism.

"it doesn't exist, and these people are idiots. They could've just ran under the normal libertarian label, nothing was preventing them from it. Yet, they had to splinter off and form a stupid unwinnable party because of it."

Actually, this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. I formed the Boston Tea Party because I SAW people leaving the LP over the events in Portland -- not because I wanted to GET them to leave the LP over events in Portland. I wanted to create a place for people to go who were leaving the LP whether they had another party to go to or not. And the first thing I put on the table was the possibility of re-entering the LP as an internal caucus rather than attempting to become a full-blow political party. That resolution was rejected at our organizational convention this weekend, but it was made (by me, as a matter of fact).

A number of BTP members, myself included, remain LP members (and even LP officials). I know at least one LP congressional candidate who is also a BTP member. There may eventually be a reunion. If there's not, well, I guess that's the way it goes.

As far as "unwinnability" goes, it took five years from the founding of the LP to the first LP public official taking office. The Boston Tea Party had its first public official in office as of the instant of its founding. I'm not James Carville, but I've won elections with the LP -- and if I decide to run campaigns in the BTP, I'll win elections there, too.

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
Is it really the guy that started it? i thought someone was kidding at first, but I can't place the "voice".
 
Hi, y'all, and glad to be here (I think I'd heard of this site, but hadn't visited -- saw some hits to the Boston Tea Party's site from this thread, and boy are my arms tired)!

I'm not sure I'd call myself a "libertarian expert," uscitizen. I'm probably the closest thing there is to an expert on the Boston Tea Party though, since I started it, built its site (yes, I know it's ugly -- it was also quick and dirty), and served as its interim chair through the convention last weekend.

I'm aware that it's not reasonable to expect everyone to like the Boston Tea Party, or to think it's a good idea, or to agree with it (or with me), etc. ... but I do want to do the best job I can of making sure that such disagreements/dislikes are based on reality rather than misperception. Or, if opinions are going to be based on misperceptions, I'll at least hop in with my hype, because my misperceptions can beat up your misperceptions ;-)

So ... if anyone wants to know anything or talk about anything, or just take the piss out of me, here I am!

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
LadyT,

You write:

"Is it really the guy that started it? i thought someone was kidding at first, but I can't place the 'voice.'"

Yes, I'm really the guy who started it. If you want to confirm that for certain, drop a line to info@bostontea.us and I'll reply. I'll probably also link to this thread from my blog at some point as well, for additional confidence that I am who I say I am.

I do so love a lady with a suspicious mind!

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
Hi, y'all, and glad to be here (I think I'd heard of this site, but hadn't visited -- saw some hits to the Boston Tea Party's site from this thread, and boy are my arms tired)!

I'm not sure I'd call myself a "libertarian expert," uscitizen. I'm probably the closest thing there is to an expert on the Boston Tea Party though, since I started it, built its site (yes, I know it's ugly -- it was also quick and dirty), and served as its interim chair through the convention last weekend.

I'm aware that it's not reasonable to expect everyone to like the Boston Tea Party, or to think it's a good idea, or to agree with it (or with me), etc. ... but I do want to do the best job I can of making sure that such disagreements/dislikes are based on reality rather than misperception. Or, if opinions are going to be based on misperceptions, I'll at least hop in with my hype, because my misperceptions can beat up your misperceptions ;-)

So ... if anyone wants to know anything or talk about anything, or just take the piss out of me, here I am!

Regards,
Tom Knapp

A celebrity of sorts! Welcome :clink: I'm guessing I disagree with most of your platform, but welcome nonetheless!
 
Program of the Boston Tea Party
Submitted by Thomas L. Knapp on Tue, 2006-07-04 13:13.

The Program of the Boston Tea Party, adopted in convention August 19-21, 2006:


1. The Boston Tea Party calls for a complete and unconditional withdrawal of US troops from, and a cessation of US military operations against or within, Iraq.

2. The Boston Tea Party supports repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.

3. The Boston Tea Party calls for an end to the federal prohibition of marijuana and hemp.

4. The Boston Tea Party calls for the immediate repeal of the REAL ID Act and any and all National ID plans.

5. The Boston Tea Party calls for legislation adopting an annual, regularized increase in the personal exemption to the federal income tax of $1,000 or more, and the additional application of said personal exemption to all FICA/Social Security taxes paid by employees and employers.


Actually Tiana you'd at least agree with the first four here.
 
bmitted by Thomas L. Knapp on Tue, 2006-07-04 13:13.

The Program of the Boston Tea Party, adopted in convention August 19-21, 2006:


1. The Boston Tea Party calls for a complete and unconditional withdrawal of US troops from, and a cessation of US military operations against or within, Iraq.

Well anyone with half a brain cell knows we should get out ASAP. The question is what would their position have been in March of 2003.

The Boston Tea Party supports repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.

I dig.

3. The Boston Tea Party calls for an end to the federal prohibition of marijuana and hemp.

It would never make the top 10 list of my todo's for hte country, but I'm not against it. I give it a check mark.

4. The Boston Tea Party calls for the immediate repeal of the REAL ID Act and any and all National ID plans.

That can be crucial in fighting the WOT. Nope wiht caveats.

5. The Boston Tea Party calls for legislation adopting an annual, regularized increase in the personal exemption to the federal income tax of $1,000 or more, and the additional application of said personal exemption to all FICA/Social Security taxes paid by employees and employers.[/i]

And how exactly is that going to help our budget crisis?
 
Lady T,

Up front, let me state that the program is not something I wrote (although I did propose some of its points). It was created by the membership and each point was polled for support. So:

1. Marijuana and hemp. I'm not sure where I'd rank that, but I do agree with it. Matter of fact, I'm much more extreme.

2. REAL ID. I'm not sure why you think it will be useful in the war on terror. Every one of the 9/11 hijackers had "appropriate documentation." If REAL ID is implemented, the next set of killers will have nice official papers to flash on demand, too.

3. I'm not concerned with the government's "budget crisis." There's an obvious solution to it -- they can stop spending more than they take in. My aim is to reduce the amount they take in. If they don't act responsibly after that, that's another issue. Hell, I was hoping you'd give me some points for the FORM of the tax cut -- bottom-up with the greatest benefit to the poor, instead of top-down with the greatest benefit to the rich.

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
Lady T,
2. REAL ID. I'm not sure why you think it will be useful in the war on terror. Every one of the 9/11 hijackers had "appropriate documentation." If REAL ID is implemented, the next set of killers will have nice official papers to flash on demand, too.
Agreed. There is a reflexive, almost religious, belief among many politicians and commentators that more stringent identification requirements automatically equate with more security. This simply isn't true, however.
 
Agreed. There is a reflexive, almost religious, belief among many politicians and commentators that more stringent identification requirements automatically equate with more security. This simply isn't true, however.
I think it is a control issue. They work toward a time when you entire life is tracked.
 
Oh great, I called in the Boston Tea party. Damn google spiders.

I just think that splitting off and creating an even more extreme party because of the fact that the LP dared to moderate their positions is a bad idea. If the party ever gets off the ground it will go nowhere, just as the libertarian party, and if it does field people for elections it will hurt the movement as a whole. There's little reason to split off. We don't want to end up like the socialists, with thirty or forty different "splinter" parties and even less electoral success than the libertarians have.
 
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