Stop the insanity! 5 trillion so far

Damocles said:
You are missing the point of neither are "worse", both parties worked together to get us where we are now. Over 48 years we have overspent, we have grown, we have created ever more giveaway programs and yet we still cling to some inane spin about the White House being the end all of government. We are perpetuating some inane belief that the President is somehow responsible for every law, every dollar spent, every breath we take.

It's no wonder our kids don't know how government works, even people who are plugged in refuse to recognize that both parties suck when they are spending our money. When they refuse to see the reflection when they are looking in a mirror.
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Spending as a % of GDP fell a lot more under Bill Clinton than under Reagan Bush.

Of course, wealth was also being created at a much faster rate.
 
Watermark said:
Of course. But not faster than wealth creation:

outlayspercentgdpb.gif



You are seeking to project that we are going into some dark hole of massive spending, in order to fear people that abolishing government is a good idea, when we've been spending almost the exact same amount compared to our wealth creation for the past 50 years.



Yeah but we do better than you do.
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One more time. The debt grows massive because we do outspend "wealth creation" except during the times of the bubbles that burst.

I am not "projecting" I am stating what has happened. It isn't worth it to continue the same failed 'planning' and call it 'change'.
 
Watermark said:
Spending as a % of GDP fell a lot more under Bill Clinton than under Reagan Bush.

Of course, wealth was also being created at a much faster rate.
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Because of the tech bubble. What part of bubble don't you understand? We are living in the time right now where one of the bubbles have burst. You personally have lived through two of them. How can you be so deliberately obtuse?

And again, it fell under the R congress during Clinton. And one could try to make it seem like it was because good things were happening in the economy, but with hindsight we KNOW it was a bubble, it burst.
 
False growth built on credit and inflated values of property and "investments" and the business of repackgaging / reselling credit makes this a different situation than prior crash's.
 
Damocles said:
One more time. The debt grows massive because we do outspend "wealth creation" except during the times of the bubbles that burst.

I am not "projecting" I am stating what has happened. It isn't worth it to continue the same failed 'planning' and call it 'change'.
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But we are not outgrowing wealth creation.
 
Watermark said:
But we are not outgrowing wealth creation.
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But we are. As the bubble bursts we far outstrip it, the amount you owe the day you are born has increased until it is very near the median wage.

Covering your ears and ignoring that the only time that we got close to gaining parity was during a economic bubble doesn't change that we allow our government to spend foolishly, and we allow it regardless of which party is in power.
 
Damocles said:
You are missing the point of neither are "worse", both parties worked together to get us where we are now. Over 48 years we have overspent, we have grown, we have created ever more giveaway programs and yet we still cling to some inane spin about the White House being the end all of government. We are perpetuating some inane belief that the President is somehow responsible for every law, every dollar spent, every breath we take.

It's no wonder our kids don't know how government works, even people who are plugged in refuse to recognize that both parties suck when they are spending our money. When they refuse to see the reflection when they are looking in a mirror.
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Oh, Damo quit being so modest. You truly have a male groupie that follows you on the internet. Unfortunately it's an old man from Kentucky but you deserve much respect for starting a political chat board and having an uneducated idiot who wants to pleasure you.
 
cawacko said:
Oh, Damo quit being so modest. You truly have a male groupie that follows you on the internet. Unfortunately it's an old man from Kentucky but you deserve much respect for starting a political chat board and having an uneducated idiot who wants to pleasure you.
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Hey now Cawacko , do not project your gayness and Damo worship onto me.
 
Watermark misses the point we are just entering the actual Recession so naturally the GDP is going down as the debt is skyrocketing. Look at that chart in 4 years.
 
Watermark said:
Spending as a % of GDP fell a lot more under Bill Clinton than under Reagan Bush.

Of course, wealth was also being created at a much faster rate.
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True, but spending under Clinton INCREASED every year. But because of the productivity of the populace, GDP increased at a faster pace. It wasn't because Clinton did anything special. He kept up with traditional spending increases. He had the best boom cycle this country has ever seen and he STILL raised our national debt EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE WAS IN OFFICE.

yes, he had a Rep Congress that shares in that blame... just as Reagan had a Dem House... which by the way means that both parties are responsible as the Pres. cannot sign a budget without Congress.
 
Superfreak said:
True, but spending under Clinton INCREASED every year. But because of the productivity of the populace, GDP increased at a faster pace. It wasn't because Clinton did anything special. He kept up with traditional spending increases. He had the best boom cycle this country has ever seen and he STILL raised our national debt EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE WAS IN OFFICE.

yes, he had a Rep Congress that shares in that blame... just as Reagan had a Dem House... which by the way means that both parties are responsible as the Pres. cannot sign a budget without Congress.
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Just threads ago, not too long, I'm sure even watermark can remember. We spoke of the bubbles created by a Fed Chairman that was excoriated for creating the bubble that he is now calling "growth" and ignoring that 'deregulation' was causing issues that would create an even further issue.

Now, watermark uses that Bubble to try to prove a point of how the magical powers of Clinton created the 'growth' that just a few threads ago was understood to be created on a bubble that had burst.

This is fricking doublethink, directly holding two contrary opinions based on the same information. Watermark would have to consciously make a choice to deny any logical input and propound this over and over. The same mistakes we made then we'll make again and again and continue to call it the "solution" because we are too stupid to get past the mythical powers of the Presidency.

And I suspect to read a thread on how 'horrible' it is that kids today don't understand the system of checks and balances created in the Constitution. Posted by some of the same people who will continue to tell me that "Clinton gave us a good economy".

Jeebus. Help us.
 
Superfreak said:
True, but spending under Clinton INCREASED every year. But because of the productivity of the populace, GDP increased at a faster pace. It wasn't because Clinton did anything special. He kept up with traditional spending increases. He had the best boom cycle this country has ever seen and he STILL raised our national debt EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE WAS IN OFFICE.

yes, he had a Rep Congress that shares in that blame... just as Reagan had a Dem House... which by the way means that both parties are responsible as the Pres. cannot sign a budget without Congress.
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The Republicans are responsible.
 
Watermark said:
Spending as a % of GDP has stayed flat, Mr. Liar.
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Only if you pretend that we are not, right now, outspending it due to the bubble created by the very same principles being followed to "fix" the problem and that only the data you want to read about in a particular thread counts. At this particular time the GDP is likely growing at a very low pace or might even be shrinking, yet we still spend more and you insist we are outgrowing the debt caused by the very principles you want to use to "fix" it.

Again, you have to deliberately hold contrary information in your head, and pretend both are true. You are solid doubleplusgood blackwhite loyal to the doublethink principles. (Thought I'd better start speaking in Newspeak, the official language of his native State, he might not otherwise understand the "solid compliment" I just paid him.)
 
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