taxes and debt - or buy now and pay later

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
it is in the nature of politicians (especially republicans) not to raise taxes as it makes most voters unhappy

also, it is the nature of politicians to defer unpleasant truths to the next legislators and executives

however, we are running out of time

there is a tidal wave of debt rushing at our nation that will soon overwhelm us

it is not oil companies and futures speculators that are causing the cost of oil to rise but the falling value of the us dollar due to low interest and rising debt

taxes will have to rise - i do not like this anymore than anyone else, but necessity is at the door
 
I am already losing 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes.

The best answer is the Fair Tax Act.
 
Financial ruin caused by government is a recurring theme in history.
 
This is why you dont vote in people who hate the government.

They say government cant do anything right and then get in office and prove it.

How about we raise the taxes of each person perportionally by who htye voted into office?

Lets tax at a higher rate the people who balloned the deficit over the last few years.

You know republicans.
 
Just tax the upper 1% more and it will mostly hit Republicans. It will also tax those more heavially that benefitted the most from the finiancial rape of America.
 
How about we do away with income tax, business tax (businesses don't pay anyway, consumers pay), estate tax ect ect

And create a consumption tax like the Fair Tax Act is trying to do.

In the US we spend almost $500 billion annually in tax compliance. That is not what we pay, that is what we spend trying to figure out this insane system.

With the Fair Tax everyone living at or under the poverty level would pay not tax at all. Everyone else would pay the same % on each purchase. Spend more and you pay more taxes. These taxes would be on all new goods and services. Buy something used and its tax free (federal tax anyway).

On average, the price of any item or services is 20% to 23% tax.

Another big plus is that if politicians want to raise taxes, they have to raise taxes on every person in the USA. No more special interest nonsense with our paychecks.

And since it is a consumption tax, you no longer get anything cut from your paycheck. If you make $10 an hour and work 40 hour, your paycheck is $400.


As a consumption tax this also taxes all the people who do not pay taxes now. This would tax hookers, drug dealers, illegal immigrants, and anyone who has been "working under the table".
 
uscitizen said:
Just tax the upper 1% more and it will mostly hit Republicans. It will also tax those more heavially that benefitted the most from the finiancial rape of America.
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That's brilliant. We do that in California (where the majority of the wealthy are Democrats) and we end up with huge freaking deficits if the rich don't have a good year.
 
Desh said:
This is why you dont vote in people who hate the government.

They say government cant do anything right and then get in office and prove it.

How about we raise the taxes of each person perportionally by who htye voted into office?

Lets tax at a higher rate the people who balloned the deficit over the last few years.

You know republicans.
Click to expand...

How about start up a Tax Me More fund Desh so people such as yourself who feel they are being under taxed can choose to pay more. You can start with sending your rebate check back to the government.
 
cawacko said:
How about start up a Tax Me More fund Desh so people such as yourself who feel they are being under taxed can choose to pay more. You can start with sending your rebate check back to the government.
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I dont think we are undertaxed I think we are not fullfilling our responsibilities.

Im of the thought when you have to pay a new car you put down as much as you can and then pay the bill on time.

You dont refie it every 2 years to put off actually paying the damn thing off.

You guys want the car and want to barrow money against the damn thing at the same time.

Lets pay off the car and enjoy a year or two without payments before we have to buy another new car OK?
 
Desh said:
I dont think we are undertaxed I think we are not fullfilling our responsibilities.

Im of the thought when you have to pay a new car you put down as much as you can and then pay the bill on time.

You dont refie it every 2 years to put off actually paying the damn thing off.

You guys want the car and want to barrow money against the damn thing at the same time.

Lets pay off the car and enjoy a year or two without payments before we have to buy another new car OK?
Click to expand...

Whose "you guys"? If "you guys" refers to politicians then I agree. If "you guys" refers to some politicians and not others then I don't agree.
 
The answer is higher taxes? the government will collect over 2.6Trillion this year in taxes. There is no reason why we dont have govt health care and perfect roads and bridges with that number.

Not to be a dick but seriously some of you people need to think about that number.
2,600,000,000,000.00
 
cawacko said:
That's brilliant. We do that in California (where the majority of the wealthy are Democrats) and we end up with huge freaking deficits if the rich don't have a good year.
Click to expand...

Same with consumption tax if no one buys much not much taxes.
I prefer a flat rate personal income tax with no exemptions or deductions.
Married, single, no kids 12 kids, house, no house, etc everyone would pay the same percentage on income.
 
uscitizen said:
Same with consumption tax if no one buys much not much taxes.
I prefer a flat rate personal income tax with no exemptions or deductions.
Married, single, no kids 12 kids, house, no house, etc everyone would pay the same percentage on income.
Click to expand...

no mortgage deduction would be brutal for people starting out in life.
 
A question you have to ask is the assets and what we do with the assets that we got that created the debt going to give you a bigger return than having no debt but no assets? Debt is misleading, the flows of income are the right indicator. I'd much rather have positive income flows with debt than negative income flows but no debt.
 
Solitary said:
I am already losing 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes.

The best answer is the Fair Tax Act.
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No, the best answer is a flat tax with a standard deduction. The fair tax, while I like it better than the current system, leaves open too many possibilities for loophole creations and lobbying influence..
 
uscitizen said:
Same with consumption tax if no one buys much not much taxes.
I prefer a flat rate personal income tax with no exemptions or deductions.
Married, single, no kids 12 kids, house, no house, etc everyone would pay the same percentage on income.
Click to expand...

I agree, but would add in a standard deduction to protect the poor/low income from paying taxes. Otherwise, I agree.
 
For those who have not seen my proposal before...


Flat Tax with standard deduction

It is time for this country to become fiscally responsible. The national debt has increased every fiscal year since 1960. What has happened to the responsibility of the two parties? Both like to point the blame at the other, but in reality neither have been responsible fiscally. It is time for a change. Let’s begin with our tax code. It should be simple enough that the average person can understand it. It should not be filled with thousands of loopholes and deductions. Let us push for the flat tax with a standard deduction and nothing more.

Start with a standard deduction of $30k (adjusted for inflation annually) for each adult and then tax every dollar over that $30k at 20%. This is simple, easy to understand, fair and progressive. It protects the low-income individuals and couples from paying federal income taxes. It provides the middle-income families a lower effective tax rate than the wealthy. This plan would encompass ALL income, including earned income, capital gains and dividend income.

A person making $30k pays an effective rate of 0%.

A person making $50k pays an effective rate of 8%.

A person making $100k pays an effective rate of 14%.

A person making $200k pays en effective rate of 17%.

A person making $1mm pays an effective rate of 19.4%

Everyone has the same deduction and takes it. Which causes the effective tax rate to increase the more you make.

To reduce the national debt I would propose we add an additional temporary bracket to the flat tax. Every dollar over $1 million (again adjusted for inflation annually) would be taxed at 30% rather than 20%. The additional 10% would be mandated to pay down the debt.

It is our responsibility to pay our own way and not dump trillions of dollars of debt on future generations. We need to begin electing leaders that are fiscally responsible. The future of our nation depends upon it. We are our own worst enemy. It will be our ever-increasing debt that leads to our demise. We must act now.
 
Superfreak said:
I agree, but would add in a standard deduction to protect the poor/low income from paying taxes. Otherwise, I agree.
Click to expand...

yeah I can go for a standard deduction, but not based on children, just income level.


Of course SS and veterans pensions, disability, etc would be exempt from all taxes. But any other income would fall under the flat tax after they passed the exemption level.
 
Superfreak said:
For those who have not seen my proposal before...


Flat Tax with standard deduction

It is time for this country to become fiscally responsible. The national debt has increased every fiscal year since 1960. What has happened to the responsibility of the two parties? Both like to point the blame at the other, but in reality neither have been responsible fiscally. It is time for a change. Let’s begin with our tax code. It should be simple enough that the average person can understand it. It should not be filled with thousands of loopholes and deductions. Let us push for the flat tax with a standard deduction and nothing more.

Start with a standard deduction of $30k (adjusted for inflation annually) for each adult and then tax every dollar over that $30k at 20%. This is simple, easy to understand, fair and progressive. It protects the low-income individuals and couples from paying federal income taxes. It provides the middle-income families a lower effective tax rate than the wealthy. This plan would encompass ALL income, including earned income, capital gains and dividend income.

A person making $30k pays an effective rate of 0%.

A person making $50k pays an effective rate of 8%.

A person making $100k pays an effective rate of 14%.

A person making $200k pays en effective rate of 17%.

A person making $1mm pays an effective rate of 19.4%

Everyone has the same deduction and takes it. Which causes the effective tax rate to increase the more you make.

To reduce the national debt I would propose we add an additional temporary bracket to the flat tax. Every dollar over $1 million (again adjusted for inflation annually) would be taxed at 30% rather than 20%. The additional 10% would be mandated to pay down the debt.

It is our responsibility to pay our own way and not dump trillions of dollars of debt on future generations. We need to begin electing leaders that are fiscally responsible. The future of our nation depends upon it. We are our own worst enemy. It will be our ever-increasing debt that leads to our demise. We must act now.
Click to expand...



I could support that :clink:

think of how much money we could save in the IRS. Of course HR Block would spend their last dime fighting it. too bad they are a parasitic business anyway. Our tax dollars pretty much pay for them.

Cut taxes, do away with parasitic tax prep agencies for personal taxes.
 
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