taxes and debt - or buy now and pay later

Obfuscate said:
A question you have to ask is the assets and what we do with the assets that we got that created the debt going to give you a bigger return than having no debt but no assets? Debt is misleading, the flows of income are the right indicator. I'd much rather have positive income flows with debt than negative income flows but no debt.
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How about a rate of debt growth that outpaces your income? How does that rank in your personal financial dreams. Go read rich dad poor dad some more.:rolleyes:
 
That would contribute to a negative income flow AHZ. I'm not supporting the current debt, I'm just explaining debt is misleading. People think raising taxes will help because it will create less debt even though it will create a lower income flow from the higher taxes.
 
Obfuscate said:
That would contribute to a negative income flow AHZ. I'm not supporting the current debt, I'm just explaining debt is misleading. People think raising taxes will help because it will create less debt even though it will create a lower income flow from the higher taxes.
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But if we drop the debt as was states above with a surtax for paying off the debt, it will raise the value of the dollar and in effect create more effective income flow. The is no painless souloution to our mess, but if we do not work on it it will drag us down low.
 
uscitizen said:
But if we drop the debt as was states above with a surtax for paying off the debt, it will raise the value of the dollar and in effect create more effective income flow. The is no painless souloution to our mess, but if we do not work on it it will drag us down low.
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Truer words have not been spoken. We MUST accept the fact that it will not be easy, but it is the right path to take and it needs to be taken now. Because the longer we wait, the more painful it will be. Passing along the problem to future generations is not an option.
 
cawacko said:
That's brilliant. We do that in California (where the majority of the wealthy are Democrats) and we end up with huge freaking deficits if the rich don't have a good year.
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ca

voters here pass propositions that require spending but do not pass taxes to collect what is needed for said spending - same for the legislature - also, the legislature steals from local government to pay for their sins

oh well

TANSTAFL
 
Chapdog said:
The answer is higher taxes? the government will collect over 2.6Trillion this year in taxes. There is no reason why we dont have govt health care and perfect roads and bridges with that number.

Not to be a dick but seriously some of you people need to think about that number.
2,600,000,000,000.00
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CD

THAT IS STILL LESS THAN WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS - spent by our elected representatives

their ain't no such thing as a free lunch - TANSTAFL
 
Superfreak said:
For those who have not seen my proposal before...


Flat Tax with standard deduction

It is time for this country to become fiscally responsible. The national debt has increased every fiscal year since 1960. What has happened to the responsibility of the two parties? Both like to point the blame at the other, but in reality neither have been responsible fiscally. It is time for a change. Let’s begin with our tax code. It should be simple enough that the average person can understand it. It should not be filled with thousands of loopholes and deductions. Let us push for the flat tax with a standard deduction and nothing more.

Start with a standard deduction of $30k (adjusted for inflation annually) for each adult and then tax every dollar over that $30k at 20%. This is simple, easy to understand, fair and progressive. It protects the low-income individuals and couples from paying federal income taxes. It provides the middle-income families a lower effective tax rate than the wealthy. This plan would encompass ALL income, including earned income, capital gains and dividend income.

A person making $30k pays an effective rate of 0%.

A person making $50k pays an effective rate of 8%.

A person making $100k pays an effective rate of 14%.

A person making $200k pays en effective rate of 17%.

A person making $1mm pays an effective rate of 19.4%

Everyone has the same deduction and takes it. Which causes the effective tax rate to increase the more you make.

To reduce the national debt I would propose we add an additional temporary bracket to the flat tax. Every dollar over $1 million (again adjusted for inflation annually) would be taxed at 30% rather than 20%. The additional 10% would be mandated to pay down the debt.

It is our responsibility to pay our own way and not dump trillions of dollars of debt on future generations. We need to begin electing leaders that are fiscally responsible. The future of our nation depends upon it. We are our own worst enemy. It will be our ever-increasing debt that leads to our demise. We must act now.
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tell that to bushco
 
Superfreak said:
Truer words have not been spoken. We MUST accept the fact that it will not be easy, but it is the right path to take and it needs to be taken now. Because the longer we wait, the more painful it will be. Passing along the problem to future generations is not an option.
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i will if the rest of the nation will - but it will never happen

too many voters never grew up and still believe in santa claus
 
Superfreak said:
For those who have not seen my proposal before...


Flat Tax with standard deduction

It is time for this country to become fiscally responsible. The national debt has increased every fiscal year since 1960. What has happened to the responsibility of the two parties? Both like to point the blame at the other, but in reality neither have been responsible fiscally. It is time for a change. Let’s begin with our tax code. It should be simple enough that the average person can understand it. It should not be filled with thousands of loopholes and deductions. Let us push for the flat tax with a standard deduction and nothing more.

Start with a standard deduction of $30k (adjusted for inflation annually) for each adult and then tax every dollar over that $30k at 20%. This is simple, easy to understand, fair and progressive. It protects the low-income individuals and couples from paying federal income taxes. It provides the middle-income families a lower effective tax rate than the wealthy. This plan would encompass ALL income, including earned income, capital gains and dividend income.

A person making $30k pays an effective rate of 0%.

A person making $50k pays an effective rate of 8%.

A person making $100k pays an effective rate of 14%.

A person making $200k pays en effective rate of 17%.

A person making $1mm pays an effective rate of 19.4%

Everyone has the same deduction and takes it. Which causes the effective tax rate to increase the more you make.

To reduce the national debt I would propose we add an additional temporary bracket to the flat tax. Every dollar over $1 million (again adjusted for inflation annually) would be taxed at 30% rather than 20%. The additional 10% would be mandated to pay down the debt.
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I could also support your tax scheme, except I would also support limited additional deductions for families with children. Say, 5K for the first, 3K each for 2nd and 3rd, and 2K for #4. Additional children above 4 would get no additional deductions.

Superfreak said:
It is our responsibility to pay our own way and not dump trillions of dollars of debt on future generations. We need to begin electing leaders that are fiscally responsible. The future of our nation depends upon it. We are our own worst enemy. It will be our ever-increasing debt that leads to our demise. We must act now.
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I agree to a point. The government cannot continue endlessly on its habit of deficit spending.

But I also believe it is personal debt, rather than national debt, that more seriously - and more immediately - threatens our economy. The day will come when the maintenance costs of average personal debt will completely eat away the spendable income of the majority. When that stage is reached (and we are not far from it) the house of (credit) cards will come tumbling down.

Look at the trouble caused by over extended credit in just one market. While mortgage credit has big numbers associated, FAR more people both with and without mortgages are over extended in every day credit than those over extended in their mortgages, and that number is growing far faster. And the number of people willing to default is far greater, since it is easier to walk away from that new couch than it is to walk away from your home. When (not if) general credit hits the same wall housing credit has hit, every bank in the nation will be seriously threatened with collapse, and the gubmint just ain't got the cash to bail them ALL out.
 
Desh said:
This is why you dont vote in people who hate the government.

They say government cant do anything right and then get in office and prove it.

How about we raise the taxes of each person perportionally by who htye voted into office?

Lets tax at a higher rate the people who balloned the deficit over the last few years.

You know republicans.
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Shrubbie, I love you, but you are way off. You don't seem to appreciate the fact that it is the institution of government that corrupts, and regardless of the benevolence of the people who try to improve it, it still corrupts. Its the institution that has to change, and the only way to do it, is to change the rules.
 
Beefy said:
Shrubbie, I love you, but you are way off. You don't seem to appreciate the fact that it is the institution of government that corrupts, and regardless of the benevolence of the people who try to improve it, it still corrupts. Its the institution that has to change, and the only way to do it, is to change the rules.
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b

what would you replace it with - me i favor a constitutional monarchy where the monarch has the sole power to veto legislation that both congress and the president have passed
 
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