Televangelist Bill Keller says child molesters can go to heaven

Desh said:
Yeah I was just messing with everyone.

Religion is fascinating and I agree with you that organized religion is mostly about collecting money and power for the people at the top.
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Sarcasm never translates well online, does it?

A lot of religions have been used as a control for the populations. Obviously christianity and islam have been used to keep women under control.

But there is also some beauty in all of them.
 
Solitary said:
What you are describing, WM, fails the premise in one central way. The repentence must be sincere.

While it is true that you would not do the things against God, there is an allowance for losing your faith or backsliding. And there is the allowance for those who come to God later in life.

"The general belief, I think, was that if you truly believe in God you won't do those things against him"

This is the reason why the actual translation for the word "sin" is a separation from God.
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Well, basically, I just think that the "faith alone" beliefs just make it too easy to sin on purpose and then pretend to come back to God constantly.

Contrary to their beliefs, it's a much worse situation than atheists, because evangelicals are under the impression that no matter how bad they fuck up on purpose things will always be perfect for them in the end.
 
Solitary said:
LMAO!

I am not saying that I believe any of it. I am just discussing an aspect of christianity.

I consider myself a spiritual person, but have a profound mistrust of any organized religion. I have studied several religions in depth and have a passing knowledge of quite a few more.

I think it is a fascinating subject.
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I don't really consider myself "religious" or "spiritual", but I have had several very religious experiences since I've become an atheist. I just knew that they were only experiences.
 
Solitary said:
Sarcasm never translates well online, does it?

A lot of religions have been used as a control for the populations. Obviously christianity and islam have been used to keep women under control.

But there is also some beauty in all of them.
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They usually start out with good motives and then are bastardized by weak and or evil people for money and power.
 
Desh said:
They usually start out with good motives and then are bastardized by weak and or evil people for money and power.
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It is an excellent way to control people and people's money. And you need no real authority when you use a diety's authority for your own purposes.

The stronger a people's faith is the more susceptible they are to the perversion of their beliefs.

But some organizations seem remarkably free from corruption.

The Quakers come to mind, as do the Amish and Mennonites. They must have a profound faith to accomplish what they have, and yet they have not (to my limited knowledge) had a leader corrupt them.

And the impact of religion on the arts makes it worth whatever hassles they present.
 
I always imagined cons going to heaven only to find its like they always preached and then they hate every minute of it because they cant play footsie in the bathroom or fuck their aides and steal money.
 
If free will does not go away when we go to heaven it will suck just like on earth.

How the heck did the angels revolt in heaven anyway ?
 
uscitizen said:
If free will does not go away when we go to heaven it will suck just like on earth.

How the heck did the angels revolt in heaven anyway ?
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Maybe thats why so many faiths have reincarnation?

Perhaps heaven is as boring as eternal life with free will and no ability to effect anything.
 
Watermark said:
I think the suicide rate in heaven is prob-lee sky high.
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Suicide is probably the only sin for which you cannot repent afterwards, and so you would go to hell. But since you have already been granted eternal life in heave, maybe you would just have to work in hell.
 
Anyone who thinks that pedophiles and child murderers can get into heaven, is worshipping a sick-minded god.
 
Watermark said:
Well, basically, I just think that the "faith alone" beliefs just make it too easy to sin on purpose and then pretend to come back to God constantly.

Contrary to their beliefs, it's a much worse situation than atheists, because evangelicals are under the impression that no matter how bad they fuck up on purpose things will always be perfect for them in the end.
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That's the problem with Protestantism. They claim that Catholic Sacraments are just works and means to "buy" salvation, but most happen to be demanded of us in the Bible. That means they are a matter of faith, and to deny them is to say that God is lying.

Also, the Crusades present us with what happens when you say, "nothing you do while on Crusade will count against you, and all of your prior sins are forgiven." If the pope would have just omitted the first half of that promise, then he would have gotten a crowd of committed and honorable citizens commited to expelling the Muslims from the Holy Land. Instead, people went nuts killing, raping, looting, etc. and the mission was never accomplished. While it helped deal with a large growth in population which was challenging primogeniture and the European economy, this could have been dealt with either way as a good soldier dies just as permanently as a bad one.
 
KingRaw! said:
Anyone who thinks that pedophiles and child murderers can get into heaven, is worshipping a sick-minded god.
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I didn't say whether I believe pedophiles and child murderers get into heaven.

But we have had a nice discussion about christianity. And christianity pretty much DOES believe that if they earnestly repent and sincerely accept jesus they will go to heaven.
 
If I were God, I would simply get rid of whatever flaw in humans makes them predisposed to murder or take advantage. I probably wouldn't have ever put it in there. The Christian God doesn't seem similarly predisposed...
 
i like the jewish high holy time of jom kippur and the evening of col nidre where jews review their pact/contract made with god the previous year and make a new contract for the coming year

it is necessary to forgive your self for those things in your contract that you were not able to complete even though you tried

i think that jews have a more personal relationship between themselves and god...and more personal responsibility - i should state here that i am referring to observant jews

i also think that if more people actually practiced the tenets of their religion the world would be a far better place - well maybe i would exclude those that get in your face about converting...

i got tired of being interrupted saturday mornings by a particular group of missionaries and answered the door naked with a two handed broadsword in my hands - they never came back...

people that proselytise may be stretched out on the rack until they decide that doing such is just not a good idea...
 
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