The Ball-less Buffoons Of Bad and Badder Bargains.”

But that's not the point. The point is that congress may constitutionally spend money for the general welfare of the people - whatever they, as a group of elected officials, decide that means. It doesn't matter what Madison said in the 1800s, it matters what congress can and does do now(That is horrible grammar :awesome:)

The right no longer believes in society. They believe society is socialism because the Koch brothers and the Heritage foundation has told them so for decades.

Mention 'society' and it's like Pavlov ringing the bell to today's radical right. It used to be, before 1980, that the right believed in American society, but that has been conditioned out of them.
 
For real? The general welfare clause allows congress to spend money for the general welfare of the people.

And according to the Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” (Article One Section Eight, United States Constitution)

Of Course that is the “ENUMERATED” and “ONLY” constitutionally authorized General Welfare along with Amendments that were later added to the Constitution that authorize the federal government to enforce other laws.


Social programs are nothing more than programs aimed towards the aid of a population.

Social programs are socialist programs that are aimed at bribing the vote of the American voters who leftist and rightist conspire to keep the moron minions who vote dependent on the federal government and thereby continuing to vote for the crooked bastards that create the socialist programs, thereby keeping the moron minions enslaved to dependence on corrupt Nanny Government.
 
BTW, here’s what the smartest President this country ever had, had to say about the general welfare clause.

“To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington)

The full clause reads: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States[.]” The clause is clearly about taxes. It mentions “duties, imposts and excises” both before and after it’s reference to the “general welfare.” Taxes are the "what" of the clause, to provide for the general welfare is merely the "why." The clause gives Congress power to levy various taxes, nothing more.
http://coldhardcashn...al-welfare.html
 
BTW, here’s what the smartest President this country ever had, had to say about the general welfare clause.

“To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington)

The full clause reads: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States[.]” The clause is clearly about taxes. It mentions “duties, imposts and excises” both before and after it’s reference to the “general welfare.” Taxes are the "what" of the clause, to provide for the general welfare is merely the "why." The clause gives Congress power to levy various taxes, nothing more.
http://coldhardcashn...al-welfare.html
 
...And according to the Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States...

What does General Welfare mean to you? Does it mean welfare money to the poor to you? Or does it mean that when the general state of the population is poor congress has the power to spend money to uplift the population, in spite of your failed 'free' market ideology . Things like unemployment, SS, Medicare, roads, bridges, education, jobs programs and food for people made hungry by Republicon policies.



"...Social programs are socialist programs that are aimed at bribing the vote of the American voters who leftist and rightist conspire to keep the moron minions who vote dependent on the federal government and thereby continuing to vote for the crooked bastards that create the socialist programs, thereby keeping the moron minions enslaved to dependence on corrupt Nanny Government..."

The latest Faux 'news', junkie Limbaugh bullshit rant and just another excuse for losing the election to a black man.


Your arguments are transparent.
 
...And according to the Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States...

What does General Welfare mean to you? Does it mean welfare money to the poor to you? Or does it mean that when the general state of the population is poor congress has the power to spend money to uplift the population, in spite of your failed 'free' market ideology . Things like unemployment, SS, Medicare, roads, bridges, education, jobs programs and food for people made hungry by Republicon policies.



"...Social programs are socialist programs that are aimed at bribing the vote of the American voters who leftist and rightist conspire to keep the moron minions who vote dependent on the federal government and thereby continuing to vote for the crooked bastards that create the socialist programs, thereby keeping the moron minions enslaved to dependence on corrupt Nanny Government..."

The latest Faux 'news', junkie Limbaugh bullshit rant and just another excuse for losing the election to a black man.


Your arguments are transparent.

It says the United States, not every individual in the United States.
 
...And according to the Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States...

What does General Welfare mean to you? Does it mean welfare money to the poor to you? Or does it mean that when the general state of the population is poor congress has the power to spend money to uplift the population, in spite of your failed 'free' market ideology . Things like unemployment, SS, Medicare, roads, bridges, education, jobs programs and food for people made hungry by Republicon policies.

The “General Welfare” means to me the following as you will see it meant the same to Thomas Jefferson.

“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” (Article One Section Eight, United States Constitution)

The above is the “General Welfare.” The next paragraphs prove it as Jefferson explains.

“To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington)

The full clause reads: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States[.]” The clause is clearly about taxes. It mentions “duties, imposts and excises” both before and after it’s reference to the “general welfare.” Taxes are the "what" of the clause, to provide for the general welfare is merely the "why." The clause gives Congress power to levy various taxes, nothing more.
http://coldhardcashn...al-welfare.html

The latest Faux 'news', junkie Limbaugh bullshit rant and just another excuse for losing the election to a black man.

Jefferson never even heard of Fox News nor did he ever work for it. Fox is a right-wing propaganda channel and MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN are all left-wing propaganda channels, especially MSNBC.

Your arguments are transparent.

My arguments are meant to be totally “transparent” to promote my loyalty to the strict construction of our Constitution and thereby support all of my arguments with actual constitutional facts.
 
so are you going to stop beating on the post office?


You are thwarting the wishes of the founders.
 
And according to the Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” (Article One Section Eight, United States Constitution)

Of Course that is the “ENUMERATED” and “ONLY” constitutionally authorized General Welfare along with Amendments that were later added to the Constitution that authorize the federal government to enforce other laws.




Social programs are socialist programs that are aimed at bribing the vote of the American voters who leftist and rightist conspire to keep the moron minions who vote dependent on the federal government and thereby continuing to vote for the crooked bastards that create the socialist programs, thereby keeping the moron minions enslaved to dependence on corrupt Nanny Government.


WAIT. Didn't you say the other day that all of that is unconstitutional? Why, yes you did?

And aside from the military and veterans benefits, everything else is unconstitutional in the United States and that’s why they’re bankrupted and it’s why we’re bankrupted.

Every now and then I see a glimmer of intelligence and perception in your posts, but you never fail to disappoint. It's a shame you libertarians don't possess the intelligence to think before you speak and realize the Constitution is a living document.
 
so are you going to stop beating on the post office?


You are thwarting the wishes of the founders.

Once upon a time the founders thought the government could do the better job of delivering the mail. However they were smart enough to put the amendment process in the Constitution for advancements in national human understanding and changing ideas. If they were alive today, I submit that they would support privatizing mail delivery for profit because of expanded technologies and private transportation and the fact that government doesn’t do much of anything well.

The only useful and rightful function of government is to protect the people from one another and foreign attack and only to do for the people and the States what the people and or the States can’t do for themselves.

That’s why the founders enumerated the powers of the federal government in the Constitution. They had little trust or confidence in the credibility and competence of a federal central government.

“Government is not reason it is not eloquence, its force like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)
 
WAIT. Didn't you say the other day that all of that is unconstitutional? Why, yes you did?

Then of course you’ll have no problem in posting my quotes that prove your “false” assertion then will you?

Every now and then I see a glimmer of intelligence and perception in your posts, but you never fail to disappoint. It's a shame you libertarians don't possess the intelligence to think before you speak and realize the Constitution is a living document.

Of course that “glimmer” comes to you when I’m arguing with the neo-fascist rightist, as opposed to when I’m arguing with the neo-communist leftist, correct?

The Constitution is only a “living document” in the sense that it has an “Amendment Process.” Where are the amendments that support the leftist federal socialist programs? Oh! That’s right, there aren’t any, huh?
 
You don't need an amendment for that.

It's right there in the first paragraph of the Preamble to the Constitution.

Oh! That’s right, in lefty neo-communist world the preamble and the general welfare clause trumps the entire rest of the Constitution.

The problem with that insane argument is Thomas Jefferson proved you’re full of shit. I provide the evidence

“To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington)

The full clause reads: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States[.]” The clause is clearly about taxes. It mentions “duties, imposts and excises” both before and after it’s reference to the “general welfare.” Taxes are the "what" of the clause, to provide for the general welfare is merely the "why." The clause gives Congress power to levy various taxes, nothing more.
http://coldhardcashn...al-welfare.html
 
Oh! That’s right, in lefty neo-communist world the preamble and the general welfare clause trumps the entire rest of the Constitution.

The problem with that insane argument is Thomas Jefferson proved you’re full of shit. I provide the evidence

“To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, to lay taxes of providing for the general welfare. For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington)

The full clause reads: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States[.]” The clause is clearly about taxes. It mentions “duties, imposts and excises” both before and after it’s reference to the “general welfare.” Taxes are the "what" of the clause, to provide for the general welfare is merely the "why." The clause gives Congress power to levy various taxes, nothing more.
http://coldhardcashn...al-welfare.html

Unfortunately, the words of Jefferson are not the end all/do all and are merely his opinion. As are the words of the other Founding Fathers, including Alexander Hamilton, who interpreted the Preamble in a completely different manner. (Again, this underscores the fact that the Constitution is a living document, subject to change.)

The SCOTUS is tasked with interpreting the Constitution. Since nearly the beginning of the nation's history, they have historically sided with Hamilton's vision of the scope of general welfare.
With respect to the meaning of ''the general welfare'' the pages of The Federalist itself disclose a sharp divergence of views between its two principal authors. Hamilton adopted the literal, broad meaning of the clause; 533 Madison contended that the powers of taxation and appropriation of the proposed government should be regarded as merely instrumental to its remaining powers, in other words, as little more than a power of self-support. 534 From an early date Congress has acted upon the interpretation espoused by Hamilton. Appropriations for subsidies 535 and for an ever increasing variety of ''internal improvements'' 536 constructed by the Federal Government, had their beginnings in the adminis trations of Washington and Jefferson. 537 Since 1914, federal grants- in-aid, sums of money apportioned among the States for particular uses, often conditioned upon the duplication of the sums by the recipient State, and upon observance of stipulated restrictions as to its use, have become commonplace.

The scope of the national spending power was brought before the Supreme Court at least five times prior to 1936, but the Court disposed of four of the suits without construing the ''general welfare'' clause. In the Pacific Railway Cases (California v. Pacific Railroad Co.) 538 and Smith v. Kansas City Title Co., 539 it affirmed the power of Congress to construct internal improvements, and to charter and purchase the capital stock of federal land banks, by reference to the powers of the National Government over commerce, and post roads and fiscal operations, and to its war powers. Decisions on the merits were withheld in two other cases, Massachusetts v. Mellon and Frothingham v. Mellon, 540 on the ground that neither a State nor an individual citizen is entitled to a remedy in the courts against an alleged unconstitutional appropriation of national funds. In United States v. Gettysburg Electric Ry., 541 however, the Court had invoked ''the great power of taxation to be exercised for the common defence and general welfare'' 542 to sustain the right of the Federal Government to acquire land within a State for use as a national park.

Finally, in United States v. Butler, 543 the Court gave its unqualified endorsement to Hamilton's views on the taxing power. Wrote Justice Roberts for the Court: ''Since the foundation of the Nation sharp differences of opinion have persisted as to the true interpretation of the phrase. Madison asserted it amounted to no more than a reference to the other powers enumerated in the subsequent clauses of the same section; that, as the United States is a government of limited and enumerated powers, the grant of power to tax and spend for the general national welfare must be confined to the numerated legislative fields committed to the Congress. In this view the phrase is mere tautology, for taxation and appropriation are or may be necessary incidents of the exercise of any of the enumerated legislative powers. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. Each contention has had the support of those whose views are entitled to weight. This court had noticed the question, but has never found it necessary to decide which is the true construction. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position. We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice. Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Justice Story is the correct one. While, therefore, the power to tax is not unlimited, its confines are set in the clause which confers it, and not in those of Sec. 8 which bestow and define the legislative powers of the Congress. It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.''


In another day, in another world, the words of Jefferson might prevail. Not in this world...
 
And what do you think "the United States" refers to? The government? The land? Or, perhaps, the individuals that exist as this country?

The Union. Each state was to be treated as an autonomous entity. Thus the 10th Amendment. That is why they say THESE United States and not THE
 
John Quincy Adams was probably the smartest president we ever had, followed by Lincoln, and then likely his father. I suppose Jefferson would be next, though...
 
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