The Bush Legacy

Damocles said:
Failure of the state is guaranteed if we continue on the path of generational theft we are on now. What opposition to a realistic fiscal policy where the US actually pays its debt is: The left actively working towards the failure of the state.
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And here I agree with you-I am actually somewhat more moderate than some of my posts would indicate-although I do believe programs such as head stat really do deserve full federal funding, for example.

But yes, generational theft...we need to pay for the government that we need, and we need to pay for it now, in this generation. the bush tax cuts ahve done more to hurt America than anything Al queda could have cooked up.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Again your truth detecting skills are severely wanting. Again the internet is slam-jam full of evidence that the CIA instituted the ousting of Iran’s elected leader who was thereby replaced by the Shah. The following are just some samples. Try a history lesson or two Goober.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/politics/cia-iran-1953-coup/index.html

(CNN) -- Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup.
The independent National Security Archive research institute, which published the document Monday, says the declassification is believed to mark the CIA's first formal acknowledgment of its involvement.
The documents, declassified in 2011 and given to George Washington University research group under the Freedom of Information Act, come from the CIA's internal history of Iran from the mid-1970s and paint a detailed picture of how the CIA worked to oust Mossadegh.

At an NSC meeting in early 1953, President Dwight Eisenhower said "it was a matter of great distress to him that we seemed unable to get some of these down-trodden countries to like us instead of hating us."1 The problem has likewise distressed all administrations since, and is emerging as the core conundrum of American policy in Iraq. In All the Shah's Men, Stephen Kinzer of the New York Times suggests that the explanation may lie next door in Iran, where the CIA carried out its first successful regime-change operation over half a century ago. The target was not an oppressive Soviet puppet but a democratically elected government whose populist ideology and nationalist fervor threatened Western economic and geopolitical interests. The CIA's covert intervention—codenamed TPAJAX—preserved the Shah's power and protected Western control of a hugely lucrative oil infrastructure. It also transformed a turbulent constitutional monarchy into an absolutist kingship and induced a succession of unintended consequences at least as far ahead as the Islamic revolution of 1979—and, Kinzer argues in his breezily written, well-researched popular history, perhaps to today.
Read much more at https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html
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This is the kind of reality based answer I love-thank you, thank you, thank you!
 
Truth Detector said:
You don’t vote on leadership you inept dunce. It lands in your lap when you are the leader of the free world trying to liberate and defend free nations from despots, dictators and terrorists.
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Well Goober it’s becoming totally apparent at least to me that YOU don’t vote for leadership. Seems your idea of leadership is American troops in over 120 foreign countries along with their expensive military bases, a bunch of American contractors running around Iraq and Afghanistan bilking American taxpayers for their idiotic nation building racket, a humongous Military Industrial Complex borrowing money from China to build 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers when the rest of the entire world only has one operational the Charles de Gaulle, a French carrier and one other nuke carrier being built in China, enough Generals and Admirals to supply the entire world’s militaries with leadership and still have more than enough left over for our military without missing a beat.

In short Goober it’s perfectly apparent that you’re simply a fucking neo-con RINO militarist war hawk and a true member of the “World’s Patsy,” (the idiot collective of fucking warring morons hell bent on pouring taxpayer’s loot down the toilet for the express desire to flex American muscle and make your sorry ass seem tough while the world laughs and takes advantage of your fucking stupidity.)

Myopic historically clueless thinking like yours gave us the policies that permitted Japan and Germany’s near takeover of the globe; how did that isolationism work for us again dimwit?
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WWII was simply an extension of WWI which a fucking ”progressive” son-of-a-bitch Wilson dragged us into. Thank Woodrow Wilson for connecting us at the hip with idiotic European wars.

You only prove you haven’t a fucking clue about ”isolationism” Actually in all honesty and logical definition y’all fucking neo-con RINO’s and your neo-commie brethren Demoquacks are the truest of “isolationist.” It’s you folks that ”sanction’ other nations, refuse diplomatic relationship with other nations and refuse them free trade. On the other hand it’s the truest of traditional classic liberals/conservatives that steadfastly promote the ideology of George Washington, (“Commerce with all, entangling military alliances with none.”)

You’re the fucking isolationist and you’re too fucking stupid or dishonest or both to even recognize it Goober!!!
 
The CIA, an agency with far too much power and secrecy.

it is an agency that needs overhaul more than any other in our government.
 
Truth Detector said:
This is just another incredibly stupid lunatic rant lacking in facts and based on paranoia and ignorance.




This is just another incredibly stupid lunatic rant lacking in facts and based on paranoia and ignorance.



No, no; congratulations to you for removing any doubt that at times you can rant stupid like a Liberal Lefttard. Yay you!
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Apparently Goober you only attempt to detect truth when the actual truth won’t hurt your neo-con RINO militarist heroes. I’ve provided enough evidence to prove my so-called “rants” several times over. You’ve failed to debunk anything I’ve said.

And for your further history lesson Goober you should try to recognize that our Bill Of Rights was constructed on the most ”LIBERAL” of principles in every classical definition of the word, ”LIBERAL” Only right-wing neo-con RINOs attempt to make the word “liberal” a dirty word, because they are the promoters of authoritarian BIG fucking government.

So Goober, don’t be running around this here forum claiming to be loyal to our Constitution or it’s ”LIMITED GOVERNMENT” principles while you hypocritically promote BIG neo-con RINO militarist Roman Empire style government and think in that process you won’t hear from me.
 
Rana said:
The CIA, an agency with far too much power and secrecy.

it is an agency that needs overhaul more than any other in our government.
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I wouldn't say more than any other, but yeah, they need a good purging. All agencies do.
 
There you have it from the Libertarian paranoid point of view; ISOLATIONISM works!!!

Look how well it worked in WWI and WWII!!!

But in order to be a good paranoid isolationist Libertarian, you must also pretend that Soviet Communust expansionism never happened and 9-11 never occurred. Life is good and so easy while wallowing in blissful and naive denial!
 
Truth Detector said:
There you have it from the Libertarian paranoid point of view; ISOLATIONISM works!!!

Look how well it worked in WWI and WWII!!!
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So says the self-proclaimed “truth detector” who neither understands the true definition of “isolationism” and denies the overwhelming evidence and ”TRUTH” of how America’s CIA was instrumental in the bringing to power Saddam in Iraq and the overthrow of an elected official in Iran and replaced him with a brutal Shah. CREDIBILITY anyone?????

But in order to be a good paranoid isolationist Libertarian, you must also pretend that Soviet Communust expansionism never happened and 9-11 never occurred. Life is good and so easy while wallowing in blissful and naive denial!
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But isn’t it the devoted conservative that knows NOW, that communism fails by its own preposterous ideology? Does the true conservative still believe that communism can survive by its dignity and economic genius? Does the truest of conservatives believe in this day and age that it was necessary to kill off, maim and mentally destroy thousands and thousands of young Americans in unnecessary, undeclared, unconstitutional wars simply to prevent an economic ideology so self-destructive as communism? And again I must ask you, “who the fuck died and made America the protector of the world and decider of what manner of government other nations must have for themselves?”

Again I’ll ask you what part Iraq played in 911 that necessitated the carnage of a brutal undeclared, unconstitutional war instituted by a moron American President taking orders from Dickhead Cheney?

“We know where Saddam’s WMD is and we will destroy it” (Dickhead Cheney)

“Iraq’s Oil will pay for this war.”(Dickhead Cheney)

“It’s not torture it’s simply enhanced interrogation.” (Dickhead Cheney)

DUH!!! “OTAY Richard if you say so!!!!(The Bushwhacker)
 
Classic Liberal said:
For a self-proclaimed “truth detector,” your detection skills seem woefully wanting! The internet is slam-jam full of absolute evidence that Saddam and the CIA were adorable bed fellows. The following is just a small example. History isn’t your strong suit, huh???

The Devil in the Details: The CIA and Saddam Hussein
"The coup that brought the Ba'ath Party to power in 1963 was celebrated by the United States.

The CIA had a hand in it. They had funded the Ba'ath Party - of which Saddam Hussein was a young member - when it was in opposition.

US diplomat James Akins served in the Baghdad Embassy at the time. Mr. Akins said, "I knew all the Ba'ath Party leaders and I liked them".
"The CIA were definitely involved in that coup. We saw the rise of the Ba'athists as a way of replacing a pro-Soviet government with a pro-American one and you don't get that chance very often.

"Sure, some people were rounded up and shot but these were mostly communists so that didn't bother us".
http://www.representativepress.org/CIASaddam.html

The Ba'athist coup, resulted in the return to Iraq of young fellow-Ba'athist Saddam Hussein, who had fled to Egypt after his earlier abortive attempt to assassinate Qasim. Saddam was immediately assigned to head the Al-Jihaz al-Khas, the clandestine Ba'athist Intelligence organisation. As such, he was soon involved in the killing of some 5,000 communists. Saddam's rise to power had, ironically, begun on the back of a CIA-engineered coup!

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html
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This is a pile of revisionist bullshit from a less than credible source dedicated to attempting to re-write the history of the Middle East.

I'll dispute this revisionist bullshit when I have more time to respond to your naive and foolish effort to scrounge the Internet tomfind a scrap that might support your warped naive historic perspespctive. I might start a separate thread in an attempt to dispel the dullard myths you wish to perpetuate with such nonsense.

I have work and a hockey game to attent to today.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Again your truth detecting skills are severely wanting. Again the internet is slam-jam full of evidence that the CIA instituted the ousting of Iran’s elected leader who was thereby replaced by the Shah. The following are just some samples. Try a history lesson or two Goober.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/politics/cia-iran-1953-coup/index.html

(CNN) -- Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup.
The independent National Security Archive research institute, which published the document Monday, says the declassification is believed to mark the CIA's first formal acknowledgment of its involvement.
The documents, declassified in 2011 and given to George Washington University research group under the Freedom of Information Act, come from the CIA's internal history of Iran from the mid-1970s and paint a detailed picture of how the CIA worked to oust Mossadegh.

At an NSC meeting in early 1953, President Dwight Eisenhower said "it was a matter of great distress to him that we seemed unable to get some of these down-trodden countries to like us instead of hating us."1 The problem has likewise distressed all administrations since, and is emerging as the core conundrum of American policy in Iraq. In All the Shah's Men, Stephen Kinzer of the New York Times suggests that the explanation may lie next door in Iran, where the CIA carried out its first successful regime-change operation over half a century ago. The target was not an oppressive Soviet puppet but a democratically elected government whose populist ideology and nationalist fervor threatened Western economic and geopolitical interests. The CIA's covert intervention—codenamed TPAJAX—preserved the Shah's power and protected Western control of a hugely lucrative oil infrastructure. It also transformed a turbulent constitutional monarchy into an absolutist kingship and induced a succession of unintended consequences at least as far ahead as the Islamic revolution of 1979—and, Kinzer argues in his breezily written, well-researched popular history, perhaps to today.
Read much more at https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html
Click to expand...


See above.
 
Classic Liberal said:
So says the self-proclaimed “truth detector” who neither understands the true definition of “isolationism” and denies the overwhelming evidence and ”TRUTH” of how America’s CIA was instrumental in the bringing to power Saddam in Iraq and the overthrow of an elected official in Iran and replaced him with a brutal Shah. CREDIBILITY anyone?????



But isn’t it the devoted conservative that knows NOW, that communism fails by its own preposterous ideology? Does the true conservative still believe that communism can survive by its dignity and economic genius? Does the truest of conservatives believe in this day and age that it was necessary to kill off, maim and mentally destroy thousands and thousands of young Americans in unnecessary, undeclared, unconstitutional wars simply to prevent an economic ideology so self-destructive as communism? And again I must ask you, “who the fuck died and made America the protector of the world and decider of what manner of government other nations must have for themselves?”

Again I’ll ask you what part Iraq played in 911 that necessitated the carnage of a brutal undeclared, unconstitutional war instituted by a moron American President taking orders from Dickhead Cheney?

“We know where Saddam’s WMD is and we will destroy it” (Dickhead Cheney)

“Iraq’s Oil will pay for this war.”(Dickhead Cheney)

“It’s not torture it’s simply enhanced interrogation.” (Dickhead Cheney)

DUH!!! “OTAY Richard if you say so!!!!(The Bushwhacker)
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Dear dunce; we went into Iraq to enforce resolutions he defied for over a decade. My reference to 9-11 was not one of association you dullard, it was one of REALITY; something that apparently escapes you in your desperate bid to remain globally naive and historically ignorant.

Like I said, I'll deal with your repugnant nonsense later. I have much better things to do today than to argue with a retard with a lot of time on his hands.
 
Truth Detector said:
There you have it from the Libertarian paranoid point of view; !
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Seems the “paranoia” is yours Goober. You’re the promoter of a fucking World Police Force and you’re the one that sees boogiemen worldwide and the absurd necessity for American troops in more than 120 other nations. You’re the one that promotes the paranoia of “isolationism”/sanctions on other nations. You’re the one so “paranoid” that you feel better with 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers protecting your Goober ass when the rest of the world has one and is building another, Huh Goober? You’re soooo fucking paranoid that you promote not just BIG government but a fucking GIGANTIC militarist, imperialist authoritarian government, right Goober?

So much for the neo-con RINO falsehood that they promote the Bill Of Rights ”LIMITED GOVERNMENT.” Now that’s funny I don’t care who ya are!!!!
 
Truth Detector said:
Dear dunce; we went into Iraq to enforce resolutions he defied for over a decade. My reference to 9-11 was not one of association you dullard, it was one of REALITY; something that apparently escapes you in your desperate bid to remain globally naive and historically ignorant.

Like I said, I'll deal with your repugnant nonsense later. I have much better things to do today than to argue with a retard with a lot of time on his hands.
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Oh! Excuse me I have been unaware that your are a ”progressive promoter” of your wonderful, competent United Nations[/b] and you promote the idea that America is the muscle behind such a thoughtful and righteous establishment.

YIPEEE!!! UN RESOLUTIONS are the Constitution’s authoritative reasoning to start congressionally undeclared wars. Oh! Maybe not, huh Goober?

Which Congress made America the UN’s armed force? Who were the stupid bastards that voted for that Congress?
 
I know what you find more important to do Goober than argue with me. You need some time to attempt to come up with a rational argument, because thus far you ain't doin so well.
 
Truth Detector said:
There you have it from the Libertarian paranoid point of view; ISOLATIONISM works!!!

Look how well it worked in WWI and WWII!!!

But in order to be a good paranoid isolationist Libertarian, you must also pretend that Soviet Communust expansionism never happened and 9-11 never occurred. Life is good and so easy while wallowing in blissful and naive denial!
Click to expand...

It worked great in WWI till we got involved. And because we got invovled we had WWII and the Cold War and so on and so on. That you are too ignorant to see that is no ones fault but your own.
 
Bush followed what the other Reagan clones did, which was to use the military to keep the petro-dollar propped up. That involved, among other things, coming up with false flags to attack Iraq, which before 9-11 was moving away from the petro-dollar.

Similar patterns can be seen recently, such as plans by Libya to use gold for oil trade and the use of various currencies in the Iranian bourse.
 
ralfy said:
Bush followed what the other Reagan clones did, which was to use the military to keep the petro-dollar propped up. That involved, among other things, coming up with false flags to attack Iraq, which before 9-11 was moving away from the petro-dollar.

Similar patterns can be seen recently, such as plans by Libya to use gold for oil trade and the use of various currencies in the Iranian bourse.
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False flags you say? Such as...?
 
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