The Darkness Ahead: Where The Ukraine War Is Headed | John Mearsheimer

Scott

Verified User
Found this article from John Mearsheimer that he wrote a bit over a week ago that I thought was quite good and think some others might also find quite good. For anyone reading this who doesn't know who John Mearsheimer is, here's an introduction courtesy of Wikipedia:

**
John Joseph Mearsheimer (/ˈmɪərʃaɪmər/; born December 14, 1947) is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.[3]

Mearsheimer is best known for developing the theory of offensive realism, which describes the interaction between great powers as being primarily driven by the rational desire to achieve regional hegemony in an anarchic international system.

**

Alright, with that said, I'd like to focus on the conclusion of his article, as I think it's a good summation of his points. Constructive comments are always welcome.

**
It should be apparent by now that the Ukraine war is an enormous disaster that is unlikely to end anytime soon and when it does, the result will not be a lasting peace. A few words are in order about how the West ended up in this dreadful situation.

The conventional wisdom about the war’s origins is that Putin launched an unprovoked attack on 24 February 2022, which was motivated by his grand plan to create a greater Russia. Ukraine, it is said, was the first country he intended to conquer and annex, but not the last. As I have said on numerous occasions, there is no evidence to support this line of argument, and indeed there is considerable evidence that directly contradicts it.66 While there is no question Russia invaded Ukraine, the ultimate cause of the war was the West’s decision – and here we are talking mainly about the United States – to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. The key element in that strategy was bringing Ukraine into NATO, a move that not only Putin, but the entire Russian foreign policy establishment, saw as an existential threat that had to be eliminated.

It is often forgotten that numerous American and European policymakers and strategists opposed NATO expansion from the start because they understood that the Russians would see it as a threat, and that the policy would eventually lead to disaster. The list of opponents includes George Kennan, both President Clinton’s Secretary of Defense, William Perry, and his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General John Shalikashvili, Paul Nitze, Robert Gates, Robert McNamara, Richard Pipes, and Jack Matlock, just to name a few.67 At the NATO summit in Bucharest In April 2008, both French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel opposed President George W. Bush’s plan to bring Ukraine into the alliance. Merkel later said that her opposition was based on her belief that Putin would interpret it as a “declaration of war.”68

Of course, the opponents of NATO expansion were correct, but they lost the fight and NATO marched eastward, which eventually provoked the Russians to launch a preventive war. Had the United States and its allies not moved to bring Ukraine into NATO in April 2008, or had they been willing to accommodate Moscow’s security concerns after the Ukraine crisis broke out in February 2014, there probably would be no war in Ukraine today and its borders would look like they did when it gained its independence in 1991. The West made a colossal blunder, which it and many others are not done paying for.

**

Source:
The Darkness Ahead: Where The Ukraine War Is Headed | mearsheimer.substack.com
 
There could be peace in 48 hours if the Russian Invaders withdrew from sovereign Ukrainian territory.


John Mearsheimer doesn't know as much about the war as the ultimate insider Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Pirogzhin said all the excuses the Kremlin gave for invading Ukraine were lies.

And Pirogzhin is no flower-waving peace activist. He is a War Hawk who wants Ukraine back as a vassal state, and wants to execute this war with all neccessary brutality to ensure victory. He is an unabashed Russian imperialist who has no problem with the true nature of Russian imperialism.

His moment of candor about Kremlin lies is because he thinks the war is being mismanaged because of the interests of greedy Russian oligarchs and incompetence of Shoigun and the MOD.
 
There is no such thing as sovereign territory

Land only belongs to those that can occupy and defend it

As for the author, he is just stating the obvious, you don’t need to be an intellectual to figure out what is going on
 
There is no such thing as sovereign territory

Land only belongs to those that can occupy and defend it
As for the author, he is just stating the obvious, you don’t need to be an intellectual to figure out what is going on

So if Mexico wanted California and Texas back and enlisted China's military power to help them, you would be telling your family, your friends, your neighbors that Mexico was perfectly justified in attacking us.
 
Putin has demonstrated why Ukraine and other Russian neighbors should actively seek NATO membership. Some are. his entire reasoning backfired.
 
So if Mexico wanted California and Texas back and enlisted China's military power to help them, you would be telling your family, your friends, your neighbors that Mexico was perfectly justified in attacking us.

to be fair, they would have to win first.....
 
So if Mexico wanted California and Texas back and enlisted China's military power to help them, you would be telling your family, your friends, your neighbors that Mexico was perfectly justified in attacking us.

Yes they would be just as we would be taking them.

Land was here before people and will be here long after, it has changed hands many times

No group of people are entitled to a part of the land, we fight for it in various ways
 
Putin attacked Georgia and Ukraine, which are not NATO members.

Apart from some cyber war against Latvia, Putin has not attacked the Baltic states, which are NATO members.

What conclusion should we and Russia's neighbors draw?
 
Yes they would be just as we would be taking them.

Land was here before people and will be here long after, it has changed hands many times

No group of people are entitled to a part of the land, we fight for it in various ways

I am not a moral relativist like you. I don't believe is is either just or morally to attack other people's homes. Legally, it is an abject violation of international law.

Mexico invading us with the help of Chinese military would be morally and legally wrong, even if you cannot bring yourself to say it..
 
There could be peace in 48 hours if the Russian Invaders withdrew from sovereign Ukrainian territory.

Like the "peace" that followed the western backed coup in 2014?

John Mearsheimer doesn't know as much about the war as the ultimate insider Yevgeny Prigozhin.

There you go with that "ultimate insider" thing -.- You (or anyone else for that matter) might want to take a look at my response to that line in an older thread:

The Silent Slaughter of the Flower of Ukraine’s Youth | justplainpolitics.com, Post #82

Pirogzhin said all the excuses the Kremlin gave for invading Ukraine were lies.

Prigozhin said a lot of things. Apparently, he was betraying his fellow Russians trying to cut a deal with the Ukrainians a while back too. You want to trust someone like that, go right ahead.
 
There is no such thing as sovereign territory

Land only belongs to those that can occupy and defend it

Agreed, though would you agree with the following saying:

"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children"
 
I am not a moral relativist like you. I don't believe is is either just or morally to attack other people's homes. Legally, it is an abject violation of international law.

Do you think it was an "abject violation of international law" when the U.S. annexed the Republic of Texas from Mexico too?
 
Putin has demonstrated why Ukraine and other Russian neighbors should actively seek NATO membership. Some are. his entire reasoning backfired.

What exactly do you think was Putin's reasoning for intervening in Ukraine anyway?
 
So if Mexico wanted California and Texas back and enlisted China's military power to help them, you would be telling your family, your friends, your neighbors that Mexico was perfectly justified in attacking us.

Yes they would be just as we would be taking them.

That sounds an awful lot like "might makes right". I find it rather sad that few people are actually asking, what do the -people- who live in Ukraine actually want? The answer, from what I've seen, depends on where those people are. For the most part, the populations in the areas that Russia now controls in areas formerly controlled by Ukraine -wanted- to be annexed by Russia. This was especially so in Crimea and the Donbass Republics, but still heavily so in the other regions according to the polls that Russia conducted there.

Now, some may say that the polls can't be trusted. I can live with that argument. The solution would be to do more polls, more closely scrutinized. I believe that Elon Musk suggested doing just that. Ukraine and the west have never suggested it though. Am I the only one to find that highly suspicious? Perhaps they think that might is right.
 
Putin attacked Georgia and Ukraine, which are not NATO members.

Apart from some cyber war against Latvia, Putin has not attacked the Baltic states, which are NATO members.

What conclusion should we and Russia's neighbors draw?

I think it's rather obvious what conclusions you'd -like- people to draw. But the fact of the matter is that Ukraine and Georgia have strong presences of ethnic Russians in their population, which I don't believe is the case for the other countries you mention. In the case of Ukraine, Russia tried to work out some type of diplomatic solution for 8 years while it watched as ethnic Russians were killed in eastern Ukraine. I've discussed this with you before, back in this thread:

Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative | justplainpolitics.com


For those who missed it, the thread's opening post references an article from a former swiss intelligence officer named Jacques Baud. Here's a part of the article that I find particularly revealing:

**

Ukrainian preparations in the contact zone continue. The Russian Parliament is alarmed and on February 15 asks Vladimir Putin to recognize the independence of the Republics, which he refuses.

On February 17, President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention.

[snip]

In fact, as early as February 16 [2022], Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers from the Donbass being run over.

If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.

That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.

In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge.

**

Source:
Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative | Scheerpost
 
Putin attacked Georgia and Ukraine, which are not NATO members.

Apart from some cyber war against Latvia, Putin has not attacked the Baltic states, which are NATO members.

What conclusion should we and Russia's neighbors draw?

The best guess is that they are next

I've done a lot of reading in regards to Russia's intentions and I've never seen Russia have any interest in occupying any other nation. The only possible exception might be if other nations were to give Russia grief in regards to one of its exclaves, such as Kaliningrad. Things have been quiet on those fronts recently as far as I know.
 
I am not a moral relativist like you. I don't believe is is either just or morally to attack other people's homes. Legally, it is an abject violation of international law.

Mexico invading us with the help of Chinese military would be morally and legally wrong, even if you cannot bring yourself to say it..

It wouldn’t be morally wrong to them.

Are you saying you should be allowed to dictate the morals of everyone else on the planet?

Do you believe you are a god?
 
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