The Line Between Good and Evil Cuts Through Evangelical America

T. A. Gardner said:
Do you oppose funding Palestinians to kill Israelis?
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Invasive Jews killing Palestinians in Palestine is illegal. Palestinians killing invasive Jews in Palestine is not. Ergo, it is illegal to fund invasive Jews and legal to fund defending Palestinians.

Argue all you like. You won't change the law.
 
moon said:
Invasive Jews killing Palestinians in Palestine is illegal. Palestinians killing invasive Jews in Palestine is not. Ergo, it is illegal to fund invasive Jews and legal to fund defending Palestinians.

Argue all you like. You won't change the law.
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So, you claim that that Hamas' invasion of Israel on Oct 6 was justified, even though the part they invaded was ceded from Egyptian territory in the Sinai Peninsula as part of a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel do you?
 
You wonder where the Zionist army was on October 7th ? It was busy killing Palestinians in the West Bank.
It killed almost 500 indigenous Palestinians there and wounded 13,000 more in 2023 . That's why there was a reprisal attack by Hamas on October 7th. As the UN Secretary General commented after that reprisal attack- " These things do not happen in a vacuum "


https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-gr...6QvYMRfHyCVSedPAwyHXXWFN99F3s2lgKR-_qXvFWzjqM

https://electronicintifada.net/cont...nmounCv44hiceqDW2bV43RhFiQ297uJ6RKxSVVvgmvOFc


https://www.palestinechronicle.com/...r7tIgy3-PGOF458me3fi55FDid2f_BgSYc-c8h6UkjsdM



https://electronicintifada.net/blog...il&utm_term=0_e802a7602d-8fa4a0d108-299180421

The ' Hamas barbarity ' that wasn't ?
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/...LU_Oah_fyP3cLo9WvAVfoPICAfGTtpfkKU9cV1D4WQr_U

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/t...veling-of-the-new-york-times-hamas-rape-story
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Any sane person would hate and despise the Left. The Left has been the source of more death, misery, poverty, oppression, and in general ruin of the human condition than any other source on the planet for over 150 years, if not longer. If you don't care, then you are part of the problem.
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This seems very simplistic. What do you define as "leftist?"

I consider progressivism to be "left." And it has marked so much positive change in history, from freeing slaves (and saying that Lincoln was a Republican is meaningless today), to worker's rights, child labor laws, allowing women to vote, civil rights, educational programs, protecting the planet, helping the world's most vulnerable, lifting people out of poverty, et al.

Kind of the opposite of your characterization.
 
BartenderElite said:
This seems very simplistic. What do you define as "leftist?"

I consider progressivism to be "left." And it has marked so much positive change in history, from freeing slaves (and saying that Lincoln was a Republican is meaningless today), to worker's rights, child labor laws, allowing women to vote, civil rights, educational programs, protecting the planet, helping the world's most vulnerable, lifting people out of poverty, et al.

Kind of the opposite of your characterization.
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The Left, and this is true for the last 150 to 200 years at least are:

Want high taxes, particularly on the wealthy. Confiscation of great wealth is seen as a good thing.
Want government control of the economy to a large or complete degree.
Believe healthcare is a right and should be universal and government paid for (aka "free")
Want only public education or if alternatives are allowed, these be under close government scrutiny.
Believes equality and fairness are measurable things in terms of economics and freedom.
Advocates that government is the solution to most problems facing society
Puts society ahead of the individual and advocates for collective responsibility
Believes people can be made to be altruistic.
Willing to use force of government to obtain ends large and small.


In simpler terms the Left:

Is authoritarian to dictatorial in government and rule of society
Puts society ahead of the individual to the point the individual is irrelevant in some cases
Wants a command economy largely or entirely controlled by government.

The things you listed are typical of liberalism that today might be best characterized as being a moderate in the generalized case, but often end up on the Left when you get to specifics.

Let's go through your list:

Worker's rights. Are you for or against right to work and right to refuse to join a union? Are you for or against employers being able to hire and fire at will?
Child labor laws. At what age can someone start working?
Civil Rights. Is affirmative action a civil right? Can government put their thumb on the scale for social justice?
Educational programs. What programs? Who pays?
Protecting the planet. How much pollution should we allow?
Helping the "world's most vulnerable. Does this extend to persons who are not citizens of the nation in question? Are borders to be enforced?
Lifting people out of poverty. How generous are we to be with other people's money? How much of someone's money are you willing to take to do this? Do you put any consequences or responsibilities on those getting that money?
 
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