The Middle East

Thomas Edison said:
Not really a fan of Arab Spring, seeing as how a proto-democratic ME is far more problematic to us than a despotic one.
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That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
 
Rune said:
That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
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Your stance of leave them alone basically means the same thing. I just point out one reason why I would prefer to leave them alone. I would rather have fewer 9/11's than gamble on this evolution thingy...
 
Rune said:
So you agree our support is not needed, and you are willing to accept the strengthening of the taliban and al-quaida as a casualty of our interference?
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Support isn't needed, but I encourage certain actions, such as providing training to rebels, and various forms of aid. However, were we to not do this, I would not be upset.
 
Rune said:
That's actualy a typical conservative veiwpoint. It's better for you and the suckers living under the despots can fuckoff. In order for society to continue to evolve, we all must adopt more humanitarian attitudes.
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No, we must adopt more isolationist views. If they choose to nuke themselves, I honestly won't care.
 
The neocon stance is actually the most humanitarian.

Conservatives like me want to isolate the ME within its own century. Liberals want to do nothing, and pretend like they are helping to save lives, respect other cultures, etc. Neocons want to actively engage in the ME militarily and finantially, so as to spread liberty/democracy and build new/lost infrastructure (oh, yeah, and save beloved Israel).
 
Thomas Edison said:
The neocon stance is actually the most humanitarian.

Conservatives like me want to isolate the ME within its own century. Liberals want to do nothing, and pretend like they are helping to save lives, respect other cultures, etc. Neocons want to actively engage in the ME militarily and finantially, so as to spread liberty/democracy and build new/lost infrastructure (oh, yeah, and save beloved Israel).
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The neocon stance is pure zionism and there is nothing remotely humanitarian about zionism.

Conservatives/neocons have never learned the limits of military power .. even when it fails so miserably.

The good news it that the world is realigning.
 
Thomas Edison said:
Does that mean the ME will become less of a shithole?
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Possibly, but unlikely until we get a new source of fuel. There's too much money to be made in screwing over the ME. For an easy comparison check out the last 50-70 years of the Qing Dynasty in China. The similarities are staggering and given the way China has turned out, rather scary. Eventually "the middle east will stand up" (see China and the Korean War) and when it does, what are they going to remember about the way the west treated them? We're not making friends over there.
 
Disillusioned said:
Possibly, but unlikely until we get a new source of fuel. There's too much money to be made in screwing over the ME. For an easy comparison check out the last 50-70 years of the Qing Dynasty in China. The similarities are staggering and given the way China has turned out, rather scary. Eventually "the middle east will stand up" (see China and the Korean War) and when it does, what are they going to remember about the way the west treated them? We're not making friends over there.
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Hence Israel. It will be funny watching them "stand up".
 
Disillusioned said:
Possibly, but unlikely until we get a new source of fuel. There's too much money to be made in screwing over the ME. For an easy comparison check out the last 50-70 years of the Qing Dynasty in China. The similarities are staggering and given the way China has turned out, rather scary. Eventually "the middle east will stand up" (see China and the Korean War) and when it does, what are they going to remember about the way the west treated them? We're not making friends over there.
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I've noticed throughout history, that wherever a single cash crop or good appears in a particular region or country, it tends to lead to despotism. Whether it be cotton in the American south, diamonds in Africa, gold in central America, oil in the Middle East, or a whole host of other pairings, it always seems to lead to despotism. I agree that the ME will have a much better chance of improving when the outside world becomes free from oil.
 
Thomas Edison said:
I've noticed throughout history, that wherever a single cash crop or good appears in a particular region or country, it tends to lead to despotism. Whether it be cotton in the American south, diamonds in Africa, gold in central America, oil in the Middle East, or a whole host of other pairings, it always seems to lead to despotism. I agree that the ME will have a much better chance of improving when the outside world becomes free from oil.
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Generally leads to despots because despots are good for business, they like revenues and don't concern themselves with what the businesses are doing so long as they get their cut. Despots in short are reliable. Less oppressive governments tend to want some of the profits of those resources to go to their people, very bad for business.
 
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