The most irrelevant man in America, 1/4/08

[Onceler]

"However, Vietnam does not have oil and is not in the middle of a region crucial to the global economy and festering with terrorism, experts say, leading many of them to conclude that the long-term effects of the Iraq war will be worse for the United States.

"It makes Vietnam look like a cakewalk," said retired Air Force Gen. Charles F. Wald, a veteran of the Vietnam War. The domino theory that nations across Southeast Asia would go communist was not fulfilled, he noted, but with Iraq, "worst-case scenarios are the most likely thing to happen."

Iraq is worse than Vietnam "in so many ways," agreed Andrew F. Krepinevich Jr., a retired Army officer and author of one of the most respected studies of the U.S. military's failure in Vietnam. "We knew what we were getting into in Vietnam. We didn't here."

Also, President Richard M. Nixon used diplomacy with China and the Soviet Union to exploit the split between them and so minimize the fallout of Vietnam. By contrast, Krepinevich said, the Bush administration has "magnified" the problems of Iraq by neglecting public diplomacy in the Muslim world and by not developing an energy policy to reduce the significance of Middle Eastern oil.

Gary Solis, who fought as a Marine in Vietnam and more recently taught the law of war at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, said he is hearing more such discussions. "Most of my military acquaintances agree that the issues in our departure from Vietnam will pale beside those that will be presented by an Iraq withdrawal," Solis said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/28/AR2007042801167.html

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'm not brushing off the casualties, and it is despicable of you to suggest that's what I'm doing. Also pretty stupid.

I am saying there is more to judging "worse" or "better" than casualties at that time. I'm talking long-term consequences.

Why do you even try to discuss anything on this board? You're a proven loser at this point, with no core opinions of your own.

The problem with people comparing Vietnam to Iraq is that you do not (nor do I) know what the long term consequences will be. When we bailed out of Vietnam, we did not expect at that time to have the future relationship that would later develop.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

"However, Vietnam does not have oil and is not in the middle of a region crucial to the global economy and festering with terrorism, experts say, leading many of them to conclude that the long-term effects of the Iraq war will be worse for the United States.

"It makes Vietnam look like a cakewalk," said retired Air Force Gen. Charles F. Wald, a veteran of the Vietnam War. The domino theory that nations across Southeast Asia would go communist was not fulfilled, he noted, but with Iraq, "worst-case scenarios are the most likely thing to happen."

Iraq is worse than Vietnam "in so many ways," agreed Andrew F. Krepinevich Jr., a retired Army officer and author of one of the most respected studies of the U.S. military's failure in Vietnam. "We knew what we were getting into in Vietnam. We didn't here."

Also, President Richard M. Nixon used diplomacy with China and the Soviet Union to exploit the split between them and so minimize the fallout of Vietnam. By contrast, Krepinevich said, the Bush administration has "magnified" the problems of Iraq by neglecting public diplomacy in the Muslim world and by not developing an energy policy to reduce the significance of Middle Eastern oil.

Gary Solis, who fought as a Marine in Vietnam and more recently taught the law of war at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, said he is hearing more such discussions. "Most of my military acquaintances agree that the issues in our departure from Vietnam will pale beside those that will be presented by an Iraq withdrawal," Solis said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/28/AR2007042801167.html

Now, would you say that opinions have changed for the better or worse since April?

 

[Battleborne]

Okay...Mr.Self proclaimed diplomate

"However, Vietnam does not have oil and is not in the middle of a region crucial to the global economy and festering with terrorism, experts say, leading many of them to conclude that the long-term effects of the Iraq war will be worse for the United States.

"It makes Vietnam look like a cakewalk," said retired Air Force Gen. Charles F. Wald, a veteran of the Vietnam War. The domino theory that nations across Southeast Asia would go communist was not fulfilled, he noted, but with Iraq, "worst-case scenarios are the most likely thing to happen."

Iraq is worse than Vietnam "in so many ways," agreed Andrew F. Krepinevich Jr., a retired Army officer and author of one of the most respected studies of the U.S. military's failure in Vietnam. "We knew what we were getting into in Vietnam. We didn't here."

Also, President Richard M. Nixon used diplomacy with China and the Soviet Union to exploit the split between them and so minimize the fallout of Vietnam. By contrast, Krepinevich said, the Bush administration has "magnified" the problems of Iraq by neglecting public diplomacy in the Muslim world and by not developing an energy policy to reduce the significance of Middle Eastern oil.

Gary Solis, who fought as a Marine in Vietnam and more recently taught the law of war at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, said he is hearing more such discussions. "Most of my military acquaintances agree that the issues in our departure from Vietnam will pale beside those that will be presented by an Iraq withdrawal," Solis said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/28/AR2007042801167.html

Why don't you throw a party for all radical Islam terrorists and try to convince them that being suicide bombers is not the way to go... Get back to me when your mission is a success or failure...this should be good!

 

[Onceler]

The problem with people comparing Vietnam to Iraq is that you do not (nor do I) know what the long term consequences will be. When we bailed out of Vietnam, we did not expect at that time to have the future relationship that would later develop.

That's why I said "could potentially." It was Grind who was more definitive on the opposite opinion, that Iraq could never approach Vietnam in terms of negative consequences.

 

[cawacko]

The problem with people comparing Vietnam to Iraq is that you do not (nor do I) know what the long term consequences will be. When we bailed out of Vietnam, we did not expect at that time to have the future relationship that would later develop.

We are on the same page today as I was thinking the same thing as well. We can say today we have trade relationships with Vietnam but its 30 years later. It seems to me we will not be able to judge the true impact of the War in Iraq until years down the road as things play out.

 

[Topspin]

I think it was a lot more than 55
Lori, you got your head shoved up your ass don't cry

 

[Onceler]

Now, would you say that opinions have changed for the better or worse since April?

Not really. I think that what I'm talking about, and what most of those quoted in the article referred to, were potential political & regional consequences. We have only had more military success in recent months; our success has not been political.

Again, though, I am not saying anything definitive on this. I was responding to the idea that Iraq could never be as bad as Vietnam.

 

[Cancel7]

We are on the same page today as I was thinking the same thing as well. We can say today we have trade relationships with Vietnam but its 30 years later. It seems to me we will not be able to judge the true impact of the War in Iraq until years down the road as things play out.

Well, we lucky bastards who sat home and pontificated about it will be able to judge it years down the road, anyway.

Not everyone will be around to give their opinion on whether or not it was worth it.

 

[Cancel7]

vietnam was 1,000 times worse. Takes a fullblown political hack to dust of a couple hunder thousand casualities like that.

We don't know the number of casualities yet.

 

[Battleborne]

Who is Lori...?

I think it was a lot more than 55
Lori, you got your head shoved up your ass don't cry

and the KIA was 55,000 plus a few...injured was greater!and I am not crying being that I served...and make no apologies for my service...up yours tennis boy!( a figure of speech mind ya)

 

[Damocles]

I am aware of that...I am a 20% VA pension vet...try again later...subby!

There were 55K killed, there were over 100K casualties.

 

[Battleborne]

Yes ...........

There were 55K killed, there were over 100K casualties.

we already covered that above...wake up damo...the snow is on the way toward you as we write.........

 

[Cypress]

I'm not so sure about that. In terms of casualties, perhaps, but what about long-term consequences?

Today, Vietnam is a country that is friendly with the U.S., and that we trade with. There were no lasting effects in that region that affect our security.

I think, and a few NIE's corroborate, that the Iraq War could potentially create a whole new generation of terrorists bent on attacking America & Americans, and has, without doubt, been a destabilizing influence in one of the world's critical regions.

from the perspective of american strategic interests, there was virutally no negative fallout for us when we withdrew from vietnam.


And I'm specifically not including our egos. That's not a strategic interest.

 

[Cypress]

vietnam was 1,000 times worse. Takes a fullblown political hack to dust of a couple hunder thousand casualities like that.

We were in vietnam for over ten years dude.

And why not include the mayhem and carnage visited on other human beings besides american soldiers?

The most credible estimates of civilian casualties in vietnam was around 3 million dead. And that took 20 years of war.

We've been in Iraq for 5 years, and the credible estimates that have been done, indicate that they are approaching one million deaths.

 

[Socrtease]

Why don't you throw a party for all radical Islam terrorists and try to convince them that being suicide bombers is not the way to go... Get back to me when your mission is a success or failure...this should be good!

BB I know you don't agree but tell us how the Military men in the article above are wrong. Two of these guys got more time in the latine than you do in a Huey. Tell me how their accessment of the Iraq war is wrong. Don't just engage in glib non sequitors

 

[Battleborne]

Well soco.............

BB I know you don't agree but tell us how the Military men in the article above are wrong. Two of these guys got more time in the latine than you do in a Huey. Tell me how their accessment of the Iraq war is wrong. Don't just engage in glib non sequitors

They are entitled to their opinion as are you and I...and I surely would not doubt they had more time in the latrine than I did in the Huey...maybe we all are full of it...or not...Iv'e already explained my point of view...take it or leave it...won't change a thing!

 

[Cypress]

George W. Bush, failure in business, popular vote loser, enabler of one of America's worst foreign policy disasters.

Failed President.

the picture john mccain will come to regret

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/election2008/ig/Election-Funny-Pictures/McCain-Bush-Brokeback.htm

 

[Epicurus]

the picture john mccain will come to regret

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/election2008/ig/Election-Funny-Pictures/McCain-Bush-Brokeback.htm

Wow. Jesus. Please tell me that's photoshopped.

He looks way too happy.

 

[Cypress]

Its totally for real. LOL