The Motive of Socialized Healthcare

[Timshel]

Not to provide care for all who need it.

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/nhs-reveals-real-motive-for.html

Debbie Hirst has breast cancer and it has metastasized. Her oncologist wants to treat her with Avastin, a drug which is used widely in the United States. But the National Health Service has said that they won’t provide it. Please remember that. That proves that one of the selling points of socialized health care is a lie: that everyone should have the health care they need and they will get it with socialized service.

That isn’t how it goes with socialist health care at all. Never has been that way and never will be that way. The reality is that people are routinely denied treatment under socialized health systems.

Hirst talked with her physician and said that she and her husband will do what they can to private raise the funds to pay for the drugs that she needs. It’s a lot of money and family taxes to pay for “free” health care are already taking a big chunk of their income. But when your life is on the line you will do what it takes. So problem solved? Not really.

The National Health Service told Hirst and her physician that she will not be allowed to purchase the drugs privately unless she also pays for all her health care privately -- something that is not possible. Remember Hirst has already been paying the NHS for her entire life for “free” care. Yet the care she needs they refuse to supply and they forbid her to buy it privately unless she dumps all the care she is getting, and which she paid for already in taxes.

....

Officials said that allowing Mrs. Hirst and others like her to pay for extra drugs to supplement government care would violate the philosophy of the health service by giving richer patients an unfair advantage over poorer ones.

Patients “cannot, in one episode of treatment, be treated on the N.H.S. and then allowed, as part of the same episode and the same treatment, to pay money for more drugs,” the health secretary, Alan Johnson, told Parliament.

“That way lies the end of the founding principles of the N.H.S.,” Mr. Johnson said.

 

[Chapdog]

whats fucked up is the pharmaceutical companies manufacturing the expensive drug use ingredients from unregulated plants around the world including india and china.

basically they are getting crap ingredients for cheap.. putting them together and selling for a fortune.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Not to provide care for all who need it.

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/nhs-reveals-real-motive-for.html

Debbie Hirst has breast cancer and it has metastasized. Her oncologist wants to treat her with Avastin, a drug which is used widely in the United States. But the National Health Service has said that they won’t provide it. Please remember that. That proves that one of the selling points of socialized health care is a lie: that everyone should have the health care they need and they will get it with socialized service.

That isn’t how it goes with socialist health care at all. Never has been that way and never will be that way. The reality is that people are routinely denied treatment under socialized health systems.

Hirst talked with her physician and said that she and her husband will do what they can to private raise the funds to pay for the drugs that she needs. It’s a lot of money and family taxes to pay for “free” health care are already taking a big chunk of their income. But when your life is on the line you will do what it takes. So problem solved? Not really.

The National Health Service told Hirst and her physician that she will not be allowed to purchase the drugs privately unless she also pays for all her health care privately -- something that is not possible. Remember Hirst has already been paying the NHS for her entire life for “free” care. Yet the care she needs they refuse to supply and they forbid her to buy it privately unless she dumps all the care she is getting, and which she paid for already in taxes.

....

Officials said that allowing Mrs. Hirst and others like her to pay for extra drugs to supplement government care would violate the philosophy of the health service by giving richer patients an unfair advantage over poorer ones.

Patients “cannot, in one episode of treatment, be treated on the N.H.S. and then allowed, as part of the same episode and the same treatment, to pay money for more drugs,” the health secretary, Alan Johnson, told Parliament.

“That way lies the end of the founding principles of the N.H.S.,” Mr. Johnson said.

I don't think anyone in America has ever seriously proposed emulating the British model, since it has quite a few flaws. To equate nationalized healthcare to all universal healthcare systems is patently ridiculous.

And in any case, the British system IS better than ours, its just that it can be improved upon.

 

[Timshel]

Why is it better? Equating the current American system as being the only possible example of market healthcare is far more ridiculous.

If this woman were treated this way by her private insurer you can bet every proponent of universal care would complain that it was a fatal flaw. But I don't believe any private insurer would/has ever go/gone this far. Denying coverage, sure. But then trying to penalize you for buying healthcare beyond coverage? Never heard of it.

 

[blackascoal]

I don't think anyone in America has ever seriously proposed emulating the British model, since it has quite a few flaws. To equate nationalized healthcare to all universal healthcare systems is patently ridiculous.

And in any case, the British system IS better than ours, its just that it can be improved upon.

Well said.

The purpose of "socialized" healthcare is to provide healthcare for people.

Easy to define.

 

[charver]

Alan Johnson lecturing people about the founding principles of the NHS whilst his Labour government, it's original architects, strives to introduce increasing elements of privatization via the back door is particularly sickening.

The decision to deny her the drugs was indefensible, which is why the decision was overturned.

 

[LadyT]

whats f*&^&^% up is the pharmaceutical companies manufacturing the expensive drug use ingredients from unregulated plants around the world including india and china.

basically they are getting crap ingredients for cheap.. putting them together and selling for a fortune.

My mom who was a pharmacist complains about this all the time. Its pretty scary actually.

 

[LadyT]

Why is it better? Equating the current American system as being the only possible example of market healthcare is far more ridiculous.

If this woman were treated this way by her private insurer you can bet every proponent of universal care would complain that it was a fatal flaw. But I don't believe any private insurer would/has ever go/gone this far. Denying coverage, sure. But then trying to penalize you for buying healthcare beyond coverage? Never heard of it.

If you have the luxury of being well insured in the US, I can see someone saying this. But for the millions that are under insured or get denied insurance or that have to pay $10K+ to ensure their families, they definitely have a different opinion. I agree with water, emulating the british model wouldn't be our goal, but surely getting everyone access to health care should be. Particularly when you have a terminal disease such as cancer.

 

[Timshel]

Alan Johnson lecturing people about the founding principles of the NHS whilst his Labour government, it's original architects, strives to introduce increasing elements of privatization via the back door is particularly sickening.

The decision to deny her the drugs was indefensible, which is why the decision was overturned.

After her cancer spread.

 

[Timshel]

If you have the luxury of being well insured in the US, I can see someone saying this. But for the millions that are under insured or get denied insurance or that have to pay $10K+ to ensure their families, they definitely have a different opinion. I agree with water, emulating the british model wouldn't be our goal, but surely getting everyone access to health care should be. Particularly when you have a terminal disease such as cancer.

Different opinion or not, tell me where a private insurer has denied all coverage based on a customer buying care not covered?

 

[Timshel]

whats fucked up is the pharmaceutical companies manufacturing the expensive drug use ingredients from unregulated plants around the world including india and china.

basically they are getting crap ingredients for cheap.. putting them together and selling for a fortune.

Intellectual property laws are fucked up.

 

[LadyT]

Different opinion or not, tell me where a private insurer has denied all coverage based on a customer buying care not covered?

I never claimed this has happened under a private insurer nor did I say that what they did was right.

 

[charver]

After her cancer spread.

Like i said, it's indefensible.

Penny-pinching decisions from a government who are falling over themselves to subsidise a failing high street bank to the tune of 55 billion squids and who want to nationalise it at a cost to the taxpayer of around 110 billion.

What do people matter, eh?

 

[Timshel]

I never claimed this has happened under a private insurer nor did I say that what they did was right.

So then what was "this?" It could not have been anything but the idea that private insurers do the same sort of thing with the context of your response to my post. Learn how to express yourself or own up to the fact you did it poorly. Don't push it off on me.

 

[Timshel]

Like i said, it's indefensible.

Penny-pinching decisions from a government who are falling over themselves to subsidise a failing high street bank to the tune of 55 billion squids and who want to nationalise it at a cost to the taxpayer of around 110 billion.

What do people matter, eh?

Yeah, but the cost issue, is not the worst of it. There is certain to be times when a socialized healthcare system says, we won't pay. But at least let the person buy it themselves.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

My mom who was a pharmacist complains about this all the time. Its pretty scary actually.

Ever heard of GHB? It's a street drug that sells for a few dollars an ounce illegaly. It's an extremely easy drug to make.

If you buy it legally for medicinally purposes, however, the treatement costs 1K a month. And there isn't even a patent on GHB.

Clearly what we need is more deregulation to fix this problem.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Intellectual property laws are fucked up.

I really think that intellectual "property" laws are more anti-property than anything else. Property gives you the right to use something and not have it taken away. Intellectual "property" entitles you to prevent anyone else from using a certain piece of knowledge.

Surely there has to be a more efficient way to reward artists and inventors. Knowledge is a non-rival good - one person using knowledge doesn't take away from others ability to use it too. The entire reason for property is that if you take something away from me, I can't use it. That's not so with knowledge. Using a fucked up scheme to try to force knowledge to be rivalrous isn't going to make anything better.

 

[Damocles]

Ever heard of GHB? It's a street drug that sells for a few dollars an ounce illegaly. It's an extremely easy drug to make.

If you buy it legally for medicinally purposes, however, the treatement costs 1K a month. And there isn't even a patent on GHB.

Clearly what we need is more deregulation to fix this problem.

Clearly what we need is to hide the cost by making rich people pay for it through their taxes, because that's what it's all about. Just giving more money from the government directly to the corporations!

 

[charver]

Yeah, but the cost issue, is not the worst of it. There is certain to be times when a socialized healthcare system says, we won't pay. But at least let the person buy it themselves.

Don't get me wrong, i think the decision to threaten to penalise her financially is scandalous as well.

I just have a little too many 'anger issues' with my own government on the subject of healthcare provision.

 

[Timshel]

Don't get me wrong, i think the decision to threaten to penalise her financially is scandalous as well.

I just have a little too many 'anger issues' with my own government on the subject of healthcare provision.

Wanna borrow Michael Moore? Not that he will fix your healthcare, but you could beat the crap out of him to relieve your anger.