The negative side of being number one

klaatu

klaatu

Fusionist
What do Mcdonalds, Microsoft, Wal-Mart and the good 'lo USA have in common? Well for starters, they are all American ..., they've reached the very pinnacle of what they do ...; Fast Food, OS-Software, Discount Merchandising and Representative Democracy ...and also ...for anyone who was fortunate to get on the ground floor of these giants .. they recieved great returns. But there is another area where they all share commonalities ..., they are as hated as they are loved. Why? Perhaps it is because they are number one. There are many who naturally hate those that are at the top, number one, top of the heap. Its as Natural as Sex between a man and a woman, as a spring breeze, as an autumn harvest. Shoot.. , look at Sports .. who is the number one hated Sports franchise in America? Why of course its the New York Yankees, who also just happens to be the most successful Sports Franchise in Histroy. So ..with great power.. comes great envy.
Lets look at Mcdonalds ... often criticised ..and often imitated. Heavy criticism directed towards their hiring and compensation practices.. yet Burger KIng and Subway are on their heels ...but you dont hear the same criticism. Does Burger King pay higher than Mcdonalds? I dont know.. and I would venture to say they are about the same. Same with Wal-Mart ... one never hears anything negative about Target ... but yet I will go out of my way and say that working at Target is not much different than working at Wal-Mart.
Microsoft? You dont hear anything negative about Microsofts employee relations. The negative opinion on Microsoft is they cornered the Market on the PC Operating System. ... through keen insight and shrewd business practices ... they had become the standard bearer during a technological revolution. If it wasnt Windows..it would have been Uncle Macs OS X.

So ..how about them damn Yankees! The USA ... That shiney city in the West, that beacon of liberty. The grand Experiment that Anyoldiron will have you believe are the forerunners of world wide terror, that revblair will tell you is deserving of the middle finger that our friendly dictator to the south often gives... you know...the guy ornot likes ..because he has given his people free health care and education....as a trade off for a Representative Democracy. Shit.. they are great people and they have free health care and education ... its Utopia down there.. we should be just like them!
Or how about this ... those poor old Islamic Freedom fighters ... everything they suffer today is a direct result of US Imperialism and Expansionism, has nothing to do with their hate of everything that isnt Islamic Extremism.. what they are taught from the day they are brought into the world, that all their troubles = Judeo/Christians ... nothing to do with leadership that will have them strap bombs around their waist and blow up malls. You think they might want to look internally and start demanding from their fucking leaders what they demand from everyone else who doesnt happen to snort after every other phrase? How about taking a curry powder break and demand freedom from the shackles of internal oppression?
Maybe..just maybe Western Democracy is not such a bad thing ...and we have had it pretty damn good over here.. and maybe just maybe we are right and they are wrong?

I want Peace for the World ... I want everyone in the World to stand up and be counted and demand Peace and Freedom ... I want a world where there are no hungry ...
But I know this.. its not going to be gained through the ideals of those who hate and despise Western Representative Democracy .. not when you realistically look at the alternatives available..
 
Damn Yankees... I'd hate them even if they sucked. I just don't like AL teams.
 
You point is very valid, all the leaders are attacked, all the top are attacked, that is just the nature of things.
 
Well we were number one for some time, why has our esteem in the world dropped so much during the Bush presidency ? Swaggering around with a big stick kicking the little guys does not help our image. I like the walk softly but carry a big stick idea better.
 
toby said:
You point is very valid, all the leaders are attacked, all the top are attacked, that is just the nature of things.
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It is the nature ... but a dangerous play ground when you take a look at what could be and how easily things can change over night .. thats what Im trying to say ....
the threat isnt here (our Governemnt, despite the morons in charge) in this country as those would have you believe.... in our system as it is now ..we have the ability to change .. we never want to lose it ...
 
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uscitizen said:
Well we were number one for some time, why has our esteem in the world dropped so much during the Bush presidency ? Swaggering around with a big stick kicking the little guys does not help our image. I like the walk softly but carry a big stick idea better.
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I agree ... we have used the wrong approach .. bad decisions ... but "we the people" are not the villains .. remember the USA is "We the People" not George Bush....

But we must also never forget ... there are those who wish to bring "We the People" down.
 
We the people are to blame, especially the second time Bush was elected.
That is one of the aspects of a representative democracy aka Republic.
 
uscitizen said:
And don't forget all the Bush backing congresspersons we elected as well.
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I think this is one reason why repubs are so freaked out over Lieberman's loss. Its a shot across the bow, that delusional war apologists can be held accountable.

Republicans have escaped accountability on the iraq war for years. Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, etc should have been tossed out on their ears years ago.
 
Cypress, I think you are right on the repubs being upset over the Lieberman thing. If it will hit a Demoncrat then how will it hit them in the fall ?
 
uscitizen said:
We the people are to blame, especially the second time Bush was elected.
That is one of the aspects of a representative democracy aka Republic.
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I'm not responsible for it. When was I included in the decision making process? There is no one in congress or in the presidency who represents me at all that I could vote for. There are some from other districts, but I obviously didn't vote for them. So I'm completely left out. The government governs without me or you, and therefore without the will of the people. It's an untouchable monolith that could really care less about anything other than getting 50% in a few gerrymandered districts and then going off on a tangeant and doing anything it wants.
 
uscitizen said:
We the people are to blame, especially the second time Bush was elected.
That is one of the aspects of a representative democracy aka Republic.
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I disagree .. and I agree with Watermark ... we elect our Government officials and they are responsible for making the decisions .. we the people rehire or fire thme the next time around. As far reelecting Bush ...look who the Dems put up against him .. and you couldnt even use the War as an excuse to vote for him ..lol. Yes.. we are responsible for electing them, but they are responsible for their actions.
Maybe this is one of the core differences between Conservative and Liberal thinking ... personal responsibility for ones own actions .. vrs. group responsibility ...


Ok .. as Cypress brags .. Lieberman is being punsihed for his pro war stance ... lets see what happens after this ....
 
Klaatu, it sounds like you are trying to avoid personal responsibility to me. You voted for Bush ? I understand then why you would want to disassociate yourself from that vote.
 
The grand Experiment that Anyoldiron will have you believe are the forerunners of world wide terror,

What? When have I said that?

I just don't think that the US is 'all that' or particularly exceptional.

It follows the same mercantile spirit created by the Brits, using the same military force we used to ensure the mercantile success, created on the back of our industrial revolution. Its success is primarily down to this, and ethnic cleansing, quaintly known as 'manifest destiny'.

It takes political philosophies developed in Europe and claims them as their own inventions. For example it claims to have brought democracy into the C20th, despite the fact that democracy was in action from the C17th in England and that the US revolution was based on respresentation in our democracy.

It is very much a child of the British Empire, a much younger and less wise version, as evident by it's atrocious foreign policy history and its over-inflated sense of its own self importance.
 
uscitizen said:
Klaatu, it sounds like you are trying to avoid personal responsibility to me. You voted for Bush ? I understand then why you would want to disassociate yourself from that vote.
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No ..thats not it at all.. I'll take resonsiiblity for my own personal actions .. dont try and lay that psychobabble on me ...
Shit I am one of the few on these boards who make an honest attempt at trying to understand the other political perspective ... and who admits to being wrong on previous positions.

What we have in this Country is Representative Democracy ... aka a Republic ...its not a total Democracy where the majority rules on every issue. So ..when we elect our officials...it then becomes their responsibility to vote ... and ours to judge them on those votes come election time ...
Why is this so hard for you to understand?

You say that we are responsible for reelecting Bush ... well the alternative was a goofball who also voted for the War .. but back peddled during the elections... sticking your finger up in the air to find which way the wind is blowing does not make a leader. kerry is a creep and he would have been a disaster. He has one of the most unimpressive Senate records I have ever seen. So I am not sorry I voted against Kerry .. I am just sorry there wasnt a viable alternative..
 
AnyOldIron said:
The grand Experiment that Anyoldiron will have you believe are the forerunners of world wide terror,

What? When have I said that?

I just don't think that the US is 'all that' or particularly exceptional.

It follows the same mercantile spirit created by the Brits, using the same military force we used to ensure the mercantile success, created on the back of our industrial revolution. Its success is primarily down to this, and ethnic cleansing, quaintly known as 'manifest destiny'.

It takes political philosophies developed in Europe and claims them as their own inventions. For example it claims to have brought democracy into the C20th, despite the fact that democracy was in action from the C17th in England and that the US revolution was based on respresentation in our democracy.

It is very much a child of the British Empire, a much younger and less wise version, as evident by it's atrocious foreign policy history and its over-inflated sense of its own self importance.
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I believe Histroy proves out that the USA has been an exceptional venture.

The mercantile spirit you speak of is neccessary part of free exchange of goods ... when it is free of Government control.. (control is the key, monitor yes...control no) When the Government becomes to large a partner in this exchange thats where the danger enters in and the Oligarchy rears its ugly head.. I will agree with you on this much.
Again .. Im talking when it becomes a partner not a watch dog ....

As far as borrowing "political philosophies" ..so what? And the Romans borrowed from the Greeks ... and on and on ...
We dont claim to have invented Democracy .. we just think we have done a pretty good job of reshaping it ....with our attempts at a highly spirited Union.

A less wise version of the British Empire? lol ... Yes your majesty .... lol
 
Klaatu, you are talking about Kerry and the second election. what about the first one ?
I do agree that most of the time all of our options at the polls suck, but Bush the second time around ......well everyone should have known better.

I would like to see a no confidence option on the ballot, saying I am voting, but I don't want any of these people.
 
I believe Histroy proves out that the USA has been an exceptional venture.

In what way? It is no more exceptional than any of the countries that have come before it... That makes it unexceptional

The mercantile spirit you speak of is neccessary part of free exchange of goods ... when it is free of Government control.. (control is the key, monitor yes...control no) When the Government becomes to large a partner in this exchange thats where the danger enters in and the Oligarchy rears its ugly head.. I will agree with you on this much.
Again .. Im talking when it becomes a partner not a watch dog ....

And as I said, the US merely adopted the Mercantilism of the British empire...

As far as borrowing "political philosophies" ..so what? And the Romans borrowed from the Greeks ... and on and on ...
We dont claim to have invented Democracy .. we just think we have done a pretty good job of reshaping it ....with our attempts at a highly spirited Union.

There are a great many people in the US who think that the US brought democracy and individual freedoms into the modern world.....

A less wise version of the British Empire? lol ... Yes your majesty .... lol

Wisdom comes from experience. The British have made the same mistakes that the US seems determined to make for themselves

My point is that the US isn't exceptional. It is a great nation, but one of a great many great nations...

It is neither the land of milk and honey nor the chosen land...
 
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