The South Falls Again

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This is very interesting. It contains good news, and bad news. The bad news is, there is no doubt that the deep south is still extremely racist. The good news is, the deep south just made themselves 100% irrelevant, and this marks the end of the decades long, Southern Strategy.

For South, a Waning Hold on National Politics
By ADAM NOSSITER
VERNON, Ala. — Fear of the politician with the unusual name and look did not end with last Tuesday’s vote in this rural red swatch where buck heads and rifles hang on the wall. This corner of the Deep South still resonates with negative feelings about the race of President-elect Barack Obama.

What may have ended on Election Day, though, is the centrality of the South to national politics. By voting so emphatically for Senator John McCain over Mr. Obama — supporting him in some areas in even greater numbers than they did President Bush — voters from Texas to South Carolina and Kentucky may have marginalized their region for some time to come, political experts say.

The region’s absence from Mr. Obama’s winning formula means it “is becoming distinctly less important,” said Wayne Parent, a political scientist at Louisiana State University. “The South has moved from being the center of the political universe to being an outside player in presidential politics.”

One reason for that is that the South is no longer a solid voting bloc. Along the Atlantic Coast, parts of the “suburban South,” notably Virginia and North Carolina, made history last week in breaking from their Confederate past and supporting Mr. Obama. Those states have experienced an influx of better educated and more prosperous voters in recent years, pointing them in a different political direction than states farther west, like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi, and Appalachian sections of Kentucky and Tennessee.

Southern counties that voted more heavily Republican this year than in 2004 tended to be poorer, less educated and whiter, a statistical analysis by The New York Times shows. Mr. Obama won in only 44 counties in the Appalachian belt, a stretch of 410 counties that runs from New York to Mississippi. Many of those counties, rural and isolated, have been less exposed to the diversity, educational achievement and economic progress experienced by more prosperous areas.

The increased turnout in the South’s so-called Black Belt, or old plantation-country counties, was visible in the results, but it generally could not make up for the solid white support for Mr. McCain. Alabama, for example, experienced a heavy black turnout and voted slightly more Democratic than in 2004, but the state over all gave 60 percent of its vote to Mr. McCain. (Arkansas, however, doubled the margin of victory it gave to the Republican over 2004.)

Less than a third of Southern whites voted for Mr. Obama, compared with 43 percent of whites nationally. By leaving the mainstream so decisively, the Deep South and Appalachia will no longer be able to dictate that winning Democrats have Southern accents or adhere to conservative policies on issues like welfare and tax policy, experts say.

That could spell the end of the so-called Southern strategy, the doctrine that took shape under President Richard M. Nixon in which national elections were won by co-opting Southern whites on racial issues. And the Southernization of American politics — which reached its apogee in the 1990s when many Congressional leaders and President Bill Clinton were from the South — appears to have ended.

“I think that’s absolutely over,” said Thomas Schaller, a political scientist who argued prophetically that the Democrats could win national elections without the South.

The Republicans, meanwhile, have “become a Southernized party,” said Mr. Schaller, who teaches at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. “They have completely marginalized themselves to a mostly regional party,” he said, pointing out that nearly half of the current Republican House delegation is now Southern.

Merle Black, an expert on the region’s politics at Emory University in Atlanta, said the Republican Party went too far in appealing to the South, alienating voters elsewhere.

“They’ve maxed out on the South,” he said, which has “limited their appeal in the rest of the country.”

Even the Democrats made use of the Southern strategy, as the party’s two presidents in the last 40 years, Jimmy Carter and Mr. Clinton, were Southerners whose presence on the ticket served to assuage regional anxieties. Mr. Obama has now proved it is no longer necessary to include a Southerner on the national ticket — to quiet racial fears, for example — in order to win, in the view of analysts.

Several Southern states, including Arkansas, Louisiana and Tennessee, have voted for the winner in presidential elections for decades. No more. And Mr. Obama’s race appears to have been the critical deciding factor in pushing ever greater numbers of white Southerners away from the Democrats.

Here in Alabama, where Mr. McCain won 60.4 percent of the vote in his best Southern showing, he had the support of nearly 9 in 10 whites, according to exit polls, a figure comparable to other Southern states. Alabama analysts pointed to the persistence of traditional white Southern attitudes on race as the deciding factor in Mr. McCain’s strong margin. Mr. Obama won in Jefferson County, which includes the city of Birmingham, and in the Black Belt, but he made few inroads elsewhere.

continued at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/politics/11south.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
 
While I can't argue the exit polls, I saw a great deal of support for Obama in and around Atlanta, in Tuscaloosa AL, and even in rural east central Alabama.

Of course, the racism that marked the south is still there. And it reared its ugly head during the campaigns. But there were still more than a few Obama signs on the lawns of white southerners. Something that marked the beginning of the end of the ignorance in my book.

I have no problem with the point of this article.

I just hope that the rest of the nation doesn't assume that we are all ignorant racists down here.
 
While I can't argue the exit polls, I saw a great deal of support for Obama in and around Atlanta, in Tuscaloosa AL, and even in rural east central Alabama.

Of course, the racism that marked the south is still there. And it reared its ugly head during the campaigns. But there were still more than a few Obama signs on the lawns of white southerners. Something that marked the beginning of the end of the ignorance in my book.

I have no problem with the point of this article.

I just hope that the rest of the nation doesn't assume that we are all ignorant racists down here.

Are you around that Appalachian belt the article talks about Solitary?

What's ironic is that I have these sort of racists in my family, here in NY. I have four family members, two brothers, an aunt and a cousin, all of whom hated george bush to a point of fighting with other family members who supported him. Real fighting leading to not talking. Every one of them would have voted for hillary clinton. All four of them voted for John McCain. One of them actually said "if obama gets in they'll get out of control". The same exact thing that ignorant hillbilly said.

So it's n ot that I believe that all southerners are ignorant racists, and that this doesn't exist in the North. It's that it seems to be far more common in the DEEP south, institionalized really. And because of this, that particular region has just made themselves irrelevant. this is the same region that gets more federal dollars than they pay. They're welfare recipients in the truest sense of the word. Maybe they should step a little lightly now.
 
Are you around that Appalachian belt the article talks about Solitary?

What's ironic is that I have these sort of racists in my family, here in NY. I have four family members, two brothers, an aunt and a cousin, all of whom hated george bush to a point of fighting with other family members who supported him. Real fighting leading to not talking. Every one of them would have voted for hillary clinton. All four of them voted for John McCain. One of them actually said "if obama gets in they'll get out of control". The same exact thing that ignorant hillbilly said.

So it's n ot that I believe that all southerners are ignorant racists, and that this doesn't exist in the North. It's that it seems to be far more common in the DEEP south, institionalized really. And because of this, that particular region has just made themselves irrelevant. this is the same region that gets more federal dollars than they pay. They're welfare recipients in the truest sense of the word. Maybe they should step a little lightly now.

The Black belt? No, that is farther south.

I do agree with the article's premise about the educated voters. I was raised in Tuscaloosa. Since a large part of the town is the University of Alabama, there was a higher emphasis on education and respect for the educated. There was a marked difference in the views on racism there.

In smaller towns, even in recent years, those who are not racist did not speak out against those who are. It was the same old fear (or worry about being ostrasized (sp). But in the last year, seeing those Obama signs on the lawns in tiny little towns gave me hope.

I know there is racism all over. But we in the south have been saddled with the reputation for being in-bred klansmen for so long. I was hoping it would stop. But apparently those of us who aren't ready to burn crosses in people's yards, who aren't calling Obama a muslim, and who do not use the "n" word are largely ignored.

Its a shame. I think many of the people who disparage us would find our part of the world a delightful place to be.

Yes, we did give the world the KKK, George Wallace and Lester Maddox. But we also gave the world Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, and Thomas Wolfe.
 
The Black belt? No, that is farther south.

I do agree with the article's premise about the educated voters. I was raised in Tuscaloosa. Since a large part of the town is the University of Alabama, there was a higher emphasis on education and respect for the educated. There was a marked difference in the views on racism there.

In smaller towns, even in recent years, those who are not racist did not speak out against those who are. It was the same old fear (or worry about being ostrasized (sp). But in the last year, seeing those Obama signs on the lawns in tiny little towns gave me hope.

I know there is racism all over. But we in the south have been saddled with the reputation for being in-bred klansmen for so long. I was hoping it would stop. But apparently those of us who aren't ready to burn crosses in people's yards, who aren't calling Obama a muslim, and who do not use the "n" word are largely ignored.

Its a shame. I think many of the people who disparage us would find our part of the world a delightful place to be.

Yes, we did give the world the KKK, George Wallace and Lester Maddox. But we also gave the world Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, and Thomas Wolfe.


Well, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that the national republicans have been utilizing the Southern Strategy to win national elections for decades, and that's gone now. The deep south has isolated itself and are irrelevant nationally. That was always where that was going to lead, all you had to do was study the changing demographics in this country. It's really not about hurt feelings. It's just reality.
 
While I can't argue the exit polls, I saw a great deal of support for Obama in and around Atlanta, in Tuscaloosa AL, and even in rural east central Alabama.

Of course, the racism that marked the south is still there. And it reared its ugly head during the campaigns. But there were still more than a few Obama signs on the lawns of white southerners. Something that marked the beginning of the end of the ignorance in my book.

I have no problem with the point of this article.

I just hope that the rest of the nation doesn't assume that we are all ignorant racists down here.

As a midwesterner who lived for 7 years in the south I concur with the article. I have been predicting for years that if white southerners continued to adhere to their brand of hard right politics that eventually they would marginalize themselves into a regional party. Looks like that day is come.

The ironic thing for me was that I had been a Republican (in the mold of Chuck Hagel, Arnold Swarzenneger and Tom Ridge, etc.) all my adult life. The hard right southern grip on the Republican party which became more and more exclusive as years went by alienated me completely.

Now a Republican would have to prove themselves to be a superior ability to convince me to vote for them as I know longer trust their party nor find them creditable.
 
The Black belt? No, that is farther south.

I do agree with the article's premise about the educated voters. I was raised in Tuscaloosa. Since a large part of the town is the University of Alabama, there was a higher emphasis on education and respect for the educated. There was a marked difference in the views on racism there.

In smaller towns, even in recent years, those who are not racist did not speak out against those who are. It was the same old fear (or worry about being ostrasized (sp). But in the last year, seeing those Obama signs on the lawns in tiny little towns gave me hope.

I know there is racism all over. But we in the south have been saddled with the reputation for being in-bred klansmen for so long. I was hoping it would stop. But apparently those of us who aren't ready to burn crosses in people's yards, who aren't calling Obama a muslim, and who do not use the "n" word are largely ignored.

Its a shame. I think many of the people who disparage us would find our part of the world a delightful place to be.

Yes, we did give the world the KKK, George Wallace and Lester Maddox. But we also gave the world Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, and Thomas Wolfe.

You bring up an excellent point. I enjoyed living in the south. The people were congenial and friendly. If the subject of politics was brought up, they were always polite to my feelings and circumspect in their conversation, that is, unless I proved agreeable to the discussion. Then I was often shocked at their views, though I was wise enough to keep my mouth shut.

The times, they are a changing and it's a scary time for whites as this nation becomes more and more brown and cultural differances more ubiquetious, they will have to adapt or truely become irrelevant, though anyone who truely considers the south irrelevant at this time is probably a bit presumptious.
 
The Black belt? No, that is farther south.

I do agree with the article's premise about the educated voters. I was raised in Tuscaloosa. Since a large part of the town is the University of Alabama, there was a higher emphasis on education and respect for the educated. There was a marked difference in the views on racism there.

In smaller towns, even in recent years, those who are not racist did not speak out against those who are. It was the same old fear (or worry about being ostrasized (sp). But in the last year, seeing those Obama signs on the lawns in tiny little towns gave me hope.

I know there is racism all over. But we in the south have been saddled with the reputation for being in-bred klansmen for so long. I was hoping it would stop. But apparently those of us who aren't ready to burn crosses in people's yards, who aren't calling Obama a muslim, and who do not use the "n" word are largely ignored.

Its a shame. I think many of the people who disparage us would find our part of the world a delightful place to be.

Yes, we did give the world the KKK, George Wallace and Lester Maddox. But we also gave the world Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, and Thomas Wolfe.
And Truman Capote and Harper Lee and the Indigo Girls and REM.
 
And Truman Capote and Harper Lee and the Indigo Girls and REM.

I had Harper Lee first on my list, but figured someone would point out the racism in the book.

But damn that was a fine piece of literature.
 
I had Harper Lee first on my list, but figured someone would point out the racism in the book.

But damn that was a fine piece of literature.
To Kill a Mockingbird was an accurate portrayal of the south in which Harper Lee grew up. It is one of the best books ever written.
 
To Kill a Mockingbird was an accurate portrayal of the south in which Harper Lee grew up. It is one of the best books ever written.

I agree it is one of the best books ever written...

So out of the characters... who do you relate with the most? or should I say, who most resembles you?
 
I think that I identified most as a child with Jem. Now I identify with Atticus but that is because of what I do. But when I first read the book it was Jem that I felt the most similarity with. As an aside. I wanted to name my second child Atticus
 
My son called me by my first name for a couple of years when he was small. Every time he did it I thought of Atticus. I loved it and quite a few Moms thought I was crazy for letting him do it. Eventually he started calling me Mom again when he went to school.

The south can not stay the same. The internet, the younger generation and the growing outsider population will bring them in line with the rest of the country.

I agree with this articles author that the racist southern block has made itself irrelevant but in its place will be a more mainline thinking south emerging.
 
I think that I identified most as a child with Jem. Now I identify with Atticus but that is because of what I do. But when I first read the book it was Jem that I felt the most similarity with. As an aside. I wanted to name my second child Atticus

In terms of attitude (not gender) I would say Scout displayed more of my temperment. Atticus is the type that I strive to be... though am not always successful at accomplishing.
 
My father in Law was very near an Atticus.

He was tall, lean and so even tempered you could hardly believe it was real.
He was bright, knew all kinds of unexpected things and always tried to be fair to every person he met. Everyone loved him and I will miss him as long as I breathe.
 
I think Atticus is what we should all strive to be. He reminds me of my Dad so much. Dad was quiet, well-mannered and smart. He would not start an argument, but he would not back out of one.
 
Are you around that Appalachian belt the article talks about Solitary?

What's ironic is that I have these sort of racists in my family, here in NY. I have four family members, two brothers, an aunt and a cousin, all of whom hated george bush to a point of fighting with other family members who supported him. Real fighting leading to not talking. Every one of them would have voted for hillary clinton. All four of them voted for John McCain. One of them actually said "if obama gets in they'll get out of control". The same exact thing that ignorant hillbilly said.

So it's n ot that I believe that all southerners are ignorant racists, and that this doesn't exist in the North. It's that it seems to be far more common in the DEEP south, institionalized really. And because of this, that particular region has just made themselves irrelevant. this is the same region that gets more federal dollars than they pay. They're welfare recipients in the truest sense of the word. Maybe they should step a little lightly now.

My sister thinks he is the anti-christ, which is worse? :eek:

It just makes me run, screaming, from the room!
 
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