The Supreme Court did not say!!

BartenderElite said:
No American should ever lose sight of the fact that Trump sat and watched HIS supporters attack our Capitol, for 3 straight hours. Beating cops, vandalizing, threatening the VP and other elected officials, storming into the Senate chamber - and he could have stopped it at any time.
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No supporter should lose sight of the fact that DNC supporters rioter in multiple cities for months and burned and looted. They killed around 30 people and the VP encouraged people to bail them out . Nancy Pelosi sympathized with them and NO Democrat has ever condemned them. No Democrat at the convention even told them to stop.
 
Flash said:
Which part is untrue? Was Trump convicted of any insurrection related crime? Can a state supreme court declare a person guilty of some act without executive branch prosecution and judicial trial involving a federal crime?

The court didn't bother to rule ln these issues (because they were not presented) and stuck with whether each state can determine ballot issues. Certainly each state cannot determine if a person was a part of an insurrection without some legal process--that decision would be made based on the partisan balance in each state.
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Trump had a district court trial and then a State SC trial and in BOTH there was a factual finding he engage in insurrection.
 
QP! said:
Trump had a district court trial and then a State SC trial and in BOTH there was a factual finding he engage in insurrection.
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State appellate courts don't hold trials and have no jurisdiction over federal law. Which district court? A "factual" finding is not a conviction since it was not a criminal trial. You can't just declare a person guilty of something without due process. That is why the Supreme Court said Congress should legislate procedures for Section 3 cases.
 
Conservatives forever ceded honesty as any kind of issue when they voted for Trump in 2016.

When they vote for him again this fall, they will forever cede any pretense of caring about the rule of law.

Neither point is disputable.
 
BartenderElite said:
Conservatives forever ceded honesty as any kind of issue when they voted for Trump in 2016.

When they vote for him again this fall, they will forever cede any pretense of caring about the rule of law.

Neither point is disputable.
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Biden lied to get elected he said the laptop was Russian disinformation. Then Joe said Hunter did not make money from China. Any honest voter knew he was lying. So don't even try to lecture us about honesty.
 
Jarod said:
Very interesting to me that the Supreme Court did not say Trumps actions were not an insurrection, they simply said States do not have the power to remove him after such a finding.


They could have said, Trump was innocent, they refused to do so.
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They also didn't say he was guilty


Is it their job to say someone is innocent that has not been convicted?
 
Flash said:
State appellate courts don't hold trials and have no jurisdiction over federal law. Which district court? A "factual" finding is not a conviction since it was not a criminal trial. You can't just declare a person guilty of something without due process. That is why the Supreme Court said Congress should legislate procedures for Section 3 cases.
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Read the actual cases. I linked them above and am not going to read them for you.

The first case was adjudicated in a State court and the finding of Fact was that Trump engaged in insurrection.

That went to the State SC and they reviewed the ruling and concurred that Trump engaged in insurrection.

The COnstitution does not require a criminal trial for an Insurrection finding and you need only look at the history of its application and prior findings to understand that.
 
ExpressLane said:
Biden lied to get elected he said the laptop was Russian disinformation. Then Joe said Hunter did not make money from China. Any honest voter knew he was lying. So don't even try to lecture us about honesty.
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Exclusive: Russia-linked smear campaign against Hunter Biden began earlier than previously thought

- A former KGB agent gave disinformation about Hunter Biden to an aide for Mike Pompeo in May 2019.

- The agent also presented the same disinformation to Justice Department officials in January 2019.

- The presentation is the earliest known instance of a Russia-linked source pushing such allegations.
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Former U.S. spies warned in 2020 that the Hunter Biden scandal had Russian fingerprints. They feel vindicated now.
The Justice Department said this week that informant Alexander Smirnov invented a story about $5 million bribes paid to Joe and Hunter Biden and is also "peddling new lies."

...The allegation that Smirnov was spreading new falsehoods about Joe Biden with an election looming hearkened back to an episode from the 2020 election, when the question of whether Russian spies were trying to smear Joe Biden was first raised.

Derogatory information, purportedly from Hunter Biden’s laptop, had surfaced in a New York Post article. Soon afterward, 51 former intelligence officials signed and blasted to the media a letter warning that the laptop story “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”...
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.
 
Jarod said:
Very interesting to me that the Supreme Court did not say Trumps actions were not an insurrection, they simply said States do not have the power to remove him after such a finding.


They could have said, Trump was innocent, they refused to do so.
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Not a lawyer, but it seems SCOTUS strives to stay on point…even an activist court like the current one.

They took the case specifically on whether a state could bounce a candidate. While I strongly believe that Trump is, indeed, guilty of violating the 14th Amendment, since that has not been adjudicated in court, I can see why SCOTUS denied Colorado removing the Pedo Traitor from the ballot. If Trump is, indeed, convicted on leading an insurrection, then that’d be a different matter.
 
volsrock said:
They also didn't say he was guilty

Is it their job to say someone is innocent that has not been convicted?
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That’s my understanding also.

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QP! said:
That went to the State SC and they reviewed the ruling and concurred that Trump engaged in insurrection.

The COnstitution does not require a criminal trial for an Insurrection finding and you need only look at the history of its application and prior findings to understand that.
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I understand a criminal conviction is not required by the 14th. But, you can't just let any court determine a person is not eligible to hold office again using standards different from the other 50 states/DC. There is no official method for making this determination. In the history of its use each House used its power to remove these members--a power clearly specified in the Constitution.

This is a power standardized in all the states and not just left up to each state. Congress should use its power under the 14th to enforce the provisions of this article by appropriate legislation.
 
BartenderElite said:
No American should ever lose sight of the fact that Trump sat and watched HIS supporters attack our Capitol, for 3 straight hours. Beating cops, vandalizing, threatening the VP and other elected officials, storming into the Senate chamber - and he could have stopped it at any time.
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HIs brainwashed followers won't acknowledge that he didn't even call them off after one of his supporters was shot. trump didn't care so they don't care.
 
christiefan915 said:
HIs brainwashed followers won't acknowledge that he didn't even call them off after one of his supporters was shot. trump didn't care so they don't care.
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No supporter should lose sight of the fact that DNC supporters rioted in multiple cities for months and burned and looted. They killed around 30 people injured over 3000 police and the VP encouraged people to bail them out . Nancy Pelosi sympathized with them and NO Democrat has ever condemned them. No Democrat at the convention even told them to stop.
 
ExpressLane said:
No supporter should lose sight of the fact that DNC supporters rioted in multiple cities for months and burned and looted. They killed around 30 people injured over 3000 police and the VP encouraged people to bail them out . Nancy Pelosi sympathized with them and NO Democrat has ever condemned them. No Democrat at the convention even told them to stop.
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No Democrat EVER condemned them? LINK

Democrats on this forum condemned their violence.
 
christiefan915 said:
No Democrat EVER condemned them? LINK

Democrats on this forum condemned their violence.
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ExLax is either becoming more desperate or more senile. His rate of false claims has increased dramatically over the past few weeks.

What piques my curiosity is whether he believes those claims are true, making him irrational, or if he knows they are false, making him a liar.
 
christiefan915 said:
No Democrat EVER condemned them? LINK

Democrats on this forum condemned their violence.
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Pretty much everyone condemned the violence. It's a lame and completely inaccurate talking point that the right keeps parroting.

But it's still not comparable. No Democrat had the power to call off the riots. Trump could have stopped 1/6 in a minute (and did - but only after waiting & watching for 3 full hours).
 
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