The true face of neo-conservatism!

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
But that's the hitch, Walker's bill proposal really doesn't adequately address the shortfall problem. Instead, it seems intent upon disabling union's negotiating power. Check this out:

http://www.wiscnews.com/saukprairiee...cc4c002e0.html

Quote:
Ziegler said teachers have negotiated for years for better health care and pension benefits at the expense of meaningful raises in salary. Ziegler said Walker's proposed changes could mean a $300 to $600 pay cut for teachers.
Bender said the average cost for a teacher in the Sauk Prairie School District, including salary and benefits, is $72,000, but that includes teachers whose entire family is on the plan.

did you read your link?......they are cutting a $72k position by $600 and you think its the end of the world?......if the union is threatening strikes over this, they OUGHT to be busted.....

Are you REALLY this dense or are you just being a Post Modern FOOL? The $72K is NOT straight salary. Got that bunky? The figure INCLUDES benefits (medical, dental, etc.). And THAT is an average for teachers with an ENTIRE family on the benefit plan. Minus 3 to 600 dollars from the base salary, and that seriously alters the benefits plan (i.e., co-pay) in a negative way.

And if you're Post Modern Fool-head still can't grasp the essentials, then get some adult you trust to dumb it down further for you. Better yet, minus a comparative amount from your salary in relation to your benefits package cost, and see if you're still willing to stooge for the likes of Walker.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople
What the bill does:

• Restricts public employees from negotiating everything except their wage

• Does not affect police and fire workers

• Limits wage increases to the rate of inflation

• Requires any larger wage increase to be approved by referendum

• Requires public employees to pay 5.8 percent of their pensions and 12 percent of their health care benefits

• Requires that collective bargaining units take annual votes to maintain certification as a union

• Prohibits employers from collecting union dues

• Releases members of collective bargaining units from dues paying requirements

That is a start anyway....though their share of healthcare and pension benefits should be much higher ... I'm sick of paying for their perks....they would have them as good in the private sector....

The Fiscal Bureau of Wisconsin announced it will end this year with a $123 million surplus.

Seems the share "they" paid into the pensions and healthcare didn't do any harm to the bottom line.....so WTF is Walker going on about? And YOU are NOT paying for any "perks"....the pensions and healthcare have to be EARNED THROUGH SERVICES RENDERED.

Pull your head out of (insert neocon politico or pundit of choice) ass, Bravo, and use the cognitive reasoning skills God gave you, please.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople
Hey here's an idea you nit wit. TRY NEGOTIATING!

This is another example of Republicans wanting to make wage slaves out of employees.

LMAO.... moron, they are STILL able to collectively bargain for wages.

You are also quite wrong on this being an over reach. This should have been done a long time ago.

You are not talking about the right to organize a private group(union members) vs. a private group (shareholders/corporation). You are talking about a private group (union members) against the public. Even Roosevelt, who created many social programs saw the insanity in allowing government workers to unionize.

Walker is only taking away PART of what they can negotiate.

A fantastic display of the convoluted logic of the neocon toadie who WOULDN'T be affected by Walker's proposal. Perhaps our Superfreaking Dummie here didn't READ the following:

• Restricts public employees from negotiating everything except their wage
• Limits wage increases to the rate of inflation
• Requires any larger wage increase to be approved by referendum
• Requires public employees to pay 5.8 percent of their pensions and 12 percent of their health care benefits
• Releases members of collective bargaining units from dues paying requirements


So unions and their members can't bargain on their benefit packages, are limited to COLA wage increase, must increase input into pensions and benefits pacakges, and then keep any bargaining units from being actual dues paying members of a union, thereby cutting down on union dues.

Only a fool, the willfully ignorant or an anti-union Walker apologist would try and lie about the union-busting antics of Gov. Walker with this proposal....and it's especially bogus when the Fiscal Bureau of Wisconsin announced it will end this year with a $123 million surplus.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Actually, according to women I know, I'm far from "plain". And you're only as old as you feel.

Yes, I'm sure all the women at the rest home think your hot and I'll admit the only thing old about you is your ideas.

 

[Taichiliberal]

As for the jobs bullshit.

1) Any law that prohibits a teenager from working because of age is discriminatory. No law should force or deny work.

As I've schooled you many times, what YOU want and think should be fact and law doesn't automatically translate into such. For your education, the U.S. Federal Child Labor Law

http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_laws.html


2) The use of fear mongering with regards to 'abuse of teenagers' by employers is quite simply pathetic. I held a job starting at age 12. I didn't need the government to tell me if it was a good situation or bad. I used that money earned to buy the things I wanted that my parents couldn't afford or were unwilling to spend money on. It teaches the value of the dollar and taking personal responsibility.

Well toodles, the rest of the country, if not the world, doesn't always share your experiences. YOU were lucky enough to be in a situation where you didn't have to put up with bad working conditions or starve....YOU chose a job (and I wonder what type of job....a paper route and such is not the same as working at a factory) out of want, NOT out of need. Here, my Superfreaking Dunce, is a little eye opener as to why there are child labor laws:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1701.html

3) The one part of the bill I do not like is the one that removes the ability for the employers to be checked out. The state should have the right to investigate if they believe abuses are taking place.

Ahh, but aren't you neocon wingnuts always wailing about gov't interference in private enterprise? Now suddenly you WANT gov't interference? Get your ass in gear, you Super(dumb)Freak, you can't have it both ways.

4) Telling a 14 or 15 year old that they have to have a special permit to work... that is the government overstepping their bounds. Protecting children from abuse is a necessity, but like anything it can be taken too far.... if that abuse in turn comes from the government... who protects them from that?

Why stop there? If a 14 or 15 year old wants to serve in the military, let'em. They know whats best, right bunky? And let's just lower the age for driver's permits...according to YOU, the gov't is overstepping their bounds in regulating that. And if a 14 year old wants to work his way up the ladder rather than get his GED, then that's okay right? Wouldn't want the gov't to overstep it's bounds!

Get this straight, you neocon ass kissing Super (dumb) Freak....the child labor laws are there for a REASON....they are born OUT OF NECESSITY, NOT out of the whims of some asshole who thinks having their kid earn a few bucks for that new stereo and such is the same as some kid who NEEDS new shoes or help put food on the table. Like I said before, leaving businesses solely in charge without federal oversight/law didn't exactly work out well regarding Wall St., the bank mortgages and corporations, did it now?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

.... State Senator Fred Risser, the dean of state legislators,

this one of the guys hiding in Rockford?.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Minus 3 to 600 dollars from the base salary, and that seriously alters the benefits plan (i.e., co-pay) in a negative way.

of course it alters the benefits plan, but seriously, can you call it serioiusly?

 

[DamnYankee]

Yes, I'm sure all the women at the rest home think your hot and I'll admit the only thing old about you is your ideas.

This attack on my looks is odd coming from you, as we've all seen your mug. And what's wrong with old ideas, like respecting the Constitution?

 

[Rune]

Spot on me lad....you might also mention that if a child DOES NOT have proper parental supervision...that child might,

Rob a bank
Steal a car
Drink a beer
Masturbate
Watch Spongbob
Smoke a joint, or
god forbid, smoke a cigarette
say fuck
eat candy

well, I could go on, but I think I made my point.

Umm, no, you didn't make a point.

 

[Rune]

Actually, according to women I know, I'm far from "plain". And you're only as old as you feel.

So, how do those old women feel?

 

[NOVA]

So, how do those old women feel?

Just like your mama feels, duneprune.....big wet lips, workin' like a hoover...

 

[Canceled1]

good fricking god. do you even read these articles or do you just glance the headlines and scream 'tyranny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'?

The short answer?

"Yes"​

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Minus 3 to 600 dollars from the base salary, and that seriously alters the benefits plan (i.e., co-pay) in a negative way.

of course it alters the benefits plan, but seriously, can you call it serioiusly?

Like I said, my Post Modern Fool, why don't YOU take 3-600 bucks out of your base salary, and then see if it doesn't affect your benefit plans?

As you can see folks, the PMP can't joke or BS his way past the FACTS regarding the reprehensible actions of Walker....but that's never stopped our Post Modern Fool before.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal

.... State Senator Fred Risser, the dean of state legislators,

this one of the guys hiding in Rockford?.....

Not that I'm aware of.....and if you know where the Dems are, how can they be "hiding", my Post Modern Fool? In any event, desperate situations call for desperate actions....not my particular course of action, but there you have it.

Bottom line: PMP can't logically or factually defend Walker's budget BS and union busting attempts....so in typical neocon parrot fashion, PMP tries to shift the blame to those fighting back.

 

[Taichiliberal]

So after a damn good portion of the State union workers (joined by non-union folk) mass in protest of Gov. Walker's union busting BS, the Teabaggers are being called into action via Dick Armey and the Koch brothers. Yep, let's counter those local masses by bussing in (once again) the Astroturf troops to defend the neocon ideological realm.

But the devil is in the details: The State's Fiscal Bureau stated that they'll end the year in a $121 million surplus....COUNTER TO WALKER'S DOOMSDAY SCENARIO. Also, one has to question Walker's sincerity when he gave $117 million in tax breaks to businesses. But hey, let's not even give the unions the chance to negotiate on the situation...let's just take more of their money and move on.

I wonder do the teabaggers on those FreedomWorks buses realize that their just union-busting backers for the Koch brothers (who have about 17 industrial businesses in Wisconsin)? Or do they care?

Wisconsin has inadvertently become a test case for the true face of the neocon agenda....and the schedule may have to be revised!

Interesting times.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Like I said, my Post Modern Fool, why don't YOU take 3-600 bucks out of your base salary, and then see if it doesn't affect your benefit plans?

As you can see folks, the PMP can't joke or BS his way past the FACTS regarding the reprehensible actions of Walker....but that's never stopped our Post Modern Fool before.

you said it "seriously" affected the benefit plan.....does a $600 change "seriously" affect a $72,000 position?.....enough so that 40,000 should take to the streets?.....people in Wisconsin should be embarrassed about being equated with the folks in the ME demonstrating for democracy.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Not that I'm aware of.....and if you know where the Dems are, how can they be "hiding", my Post Modern Fool? In any event, desperate situations call for desperate actions....not my particular course of action, but there you have it.

Bottom line: PMP can't logically or factually defend Walker's budget BS and union busting attempts....so in typical neocon parrot fashion, PMP tries to shift the blame to those fighting back.

ah, so having to start paying a portion of their pension plans like everyone else is a "desperate situation".....or are you referring just to the legislators.....perhaps having to do what they were elected to do is a "desperate situation".....or maybe, to a liberal, simpley being faced with the reality that they will be outvoted is a "desperate situation"......

some might think that an employee being compelled to pay dues to an organization that holds interests counter to their own is a desperate situation.....

 

[DamnYankee]

So, how do those old women feel?

Like 20-somethings.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Like I said, my Post Modern Fool, why don't YOU take 3-600 bucks out of your base salary, and then see if it doesn't affect your benefit plans?

As you can see folks, the PMP can't joke or BS his way past the FACTS regarding the reprehensible actions of Walker....but that's never stopped our Post Modern Fool before.

you said it "seriously" affected the benefit plan.....does a $600 change "seriously" affect a $72,000 position?.....enough so that 40,000 should take to the streets?.....people in Wisconsin should be embarrassed about being equated with the folks in the ME demonstrating for democracy.....

Once again, folks....we see the insipid stubborness of the neocon toadie that is PMP. As I previously explained, the $72,000 was a general COST figure assigned to teachers in Wisconsin....this INCLUDED the general COST of benefits packages. This means that a base salary figure was NOT given...BUT, a proposed deduction range was...$3-600. That's a hell of a lot of money for a teacher who makes a little over $46K...especially if they have a family depending on that salary. Only a fool would venture that the salary reduction Walker proposes wouldn't greatly effect the benefits package (i.e., co-pay)

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Wisconsin-teacher-salary

What PMP does is just ignore reality in favor of MISREPRESENTING the facts in order to maintain the illusion of validty to his knee jerk condemnation of the Wisconsin unions....PMP is a perfect example of the willfully ignorant and intellectually dishonest neocon parrot.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Not that I'm aware of.....and if you know where the Dems are, how can they be "hiding", my Post Modern Fool? In any event, desperate situations call for desperate actions....not my particular course of action, but there you have it.

Bottom line: PMP can't logically or factually defend Walker's budget BS and union busting attempts....so in typical neocon parrot fashion, PMP tries to shift the blame to those fighting back.

ah, so having to start paying a portion of their pension plans like everyone else is a "desperate situation" You should learn to read, PMP.....the information provided shows that the unions were already paying a portion of their pension plans. What Walker wants is a market increase WITHOUT any input from the unions. Go back and READ, you Post Modern Fool, so you know WTF you're babbling about. .....or are you referring just to the legislators Actually, YOU were in this particular post...just scroll up and follow the chronology of the posts...or get your PMP head out of your ass and pay attention to what's going on. .....perhaps having to do what they were elected to do is a "desperate situation".....or maybe, to a liberal, simpley being faced with the reality that they will be outvoted is a "desperate situation"......

Or maybe they're pulling a version of Newt Gingrich's walk out? Again, not my choice of action, but there you have it.

some might think that an employee being compelled to pay dues to an organization that holds interests counter to their own is a desperate situation.....

And some willfully ignorant neocon parrot who buys into the half truths, distortions and dodges that this Post Modern Fool puts forth might think that...IF they didn't look at ALL the FACTS available, as the chronology of the posts reveals.