The Vertual President

Howey said:
I'm here to point out absurdity.

Y'all can't come up with a legitimate candidate, so you whip out a teabagger comedian?
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Since I’m not a partisan hack-job Whack-job, I’m not here to promote any so-called “legitimate candidate.” I’m here to promote, protect and defend the United States Constitution, (that thingy you think is a comedy show), a subject matter seldom examined by y’all partisan hack-job Whack-jobs on political forums.

The subject matter of the OP is the Second Amendment and has nothing to do with “teabags.”


"No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

Since you have no rational arguments your only and typical response is more partisan horseshit, proving beyond any reasonable doubt your total intellectual ineptness.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Since I’m not a partisan hack-job Whack-job, I’m not here to promote any so-called “legitimate candidate.” I’m here to promote, protect and defend the United States Constitution, (that thingy you think is a comedy show), a subject matter seldom examined by y’all partisan hack-job Whack-jobs on political forums.

The subject matter of the OP is the Second Amendment and has nothing to do with “teabags.”


"No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

Since you have no rational arguments your only and typical response is more partisan horseshit, proving beyond any reasonable doubt your total intellectual ineptness.
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Oh goodie!

Another fake quote!

http://kryo.com/2ndAmen/Quotes.htm
 
Howey said:
Oh goodie!

Another fake quote!

http://kryo.com/2ndAmen/Quotes.htm
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Howey said:
Oh goodie!

Another fake quote!

http://kryo.com/2ndAmen/Quotes.htm
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Oh goodie! Another Green Party hack “Steven Krulick.”

Of course Ole Howey would take the neo-communist version of a Jefferson quote rather than the historical works of hundreds if not thousands of other recorders of historical quotes over the centuries, huh?

Your quote bastardizer is a fucking Green Party Hack Howey.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Oh goodie! Another Green Party hack “Steven Krulick.”

Of course Ole Howey would take the neo-communist version of a Jefferson quote rather than the historical works of hundreds if not thousands of other recorders of historical quotes over the centuries, huh?

Your quote bastardizer is a fucking Green Party Hack Howey.
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lol....remember, I never, ever post anything on here that's not true.

How about the Monticello Foundation? Are they a Green Party hack? lol...

http://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...-retain-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms-quotation
Quotation: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Variations: None known.

Sources consulted:

Papers of Thomas Jefferson Digital Edition
Thomas Jefferson: Papers and Thomas Jefferson: Biographies collections in Hathi Trust Digital Library
Thomas Jefferson Retirement Papers

Earliest known appearance in print: 1989[1]

Other attributions: None known.

Status: This quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It is often seen preceded by the sentence, "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms," which is from Jefferson's draft of the Virginia Constitution.
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Howey said:
lol....remember, I never, ever post anything on here that's not true.

How about the Monticello Foundation? Are they a Green Party hack? lol...

http://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...-retain-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms-quotation
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How about all of the following?

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution with (his note added), 1776. Papers, 1:353
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
http://www.hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.h

Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788
"To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788
"The great object is, that every man be armed. [...] Every one who is able may have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 14 1788
Samuel Adams:
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."
John Adams:
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."
Thomas Jefferson:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands."
http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/articles/guns.html

I can find web sites too! Mine are as good as yours!
 
Classic Liberal said:
How about all of the following?


I can find web sites too! Mine are as good as yours!
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So a non-existent website and Eskimo.com are equal to the Monticello Foundation? lol!

So let's take a look:

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution with (his note added), 1776. Papers, 1:353
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Yes. That was in the first, second and third drafts of the Virginia Constitution. Unfortunately, it didn't make it to the final, so your point is moot.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
http://www.hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.h
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He didn't write that. It was a quote.

"This is not something Jefferson wrote, but rather comes from a passage he included in his "Legal Commonplace Book." The passage is from Cesare Beccaria's Essay on Crimes and Punishments.[1] It appears in Jefferson's commonplace book
Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788

"To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788
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That was an opinion, again, connected to the VA constitution. And again, it never made it to it. He also said:

But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day...the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor
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"The great object is, that every man be armed. [...] Every one who is able may have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 14 1788
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Again...Henry was speaking of the Va. Constitution. Are you aware he refused to attend the Constitutional Convention? Are you aware he was relieved of leading the Va troops during the Revolution because of his erratic behavior. I'll give you this much...Henry was the precursor to today's teabagger.


Samuel Adams:
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."
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Not a word about guns. Could be a knife...

John Adams:
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."
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Now you're going the Breitbart route of chopping words to portray a different meaning. What he actually said was:


"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws."
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Quite different, huh?


Thomas Jefferson:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands."

http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/articles/guns.html
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Why are you repeating this again? I've already proven he didn't say it.

This quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson.
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You're regurgitating some serious fail, here, buddy...
 
Howey said:
So a non-existent website and Eskimo.com are equal to the Monticello Foundation? lol!
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The web site works for me!

What’s your evidence that the “Monticello Foundation” isn’t an operation staffed by leftwing ideologues with a leftwing agenda who conveniently can’t find particular Jefferson quotes? Where’s your evidence that Jefferson ever said anything that supports any leftwing ideology of gun control? How did the Second Amendment make it into the Constitution if the founders and the nation were gun control nuts?

So let's take a look:Yes. That was in the first, second and third drafts of the Virginia Constitution. Unfortunately, it didn't make it to the final, so your point is moot.
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What did and didn’t make it into the Virginia Constitution is irrelevant. It’s evidence of Jefferson’s support of the individual’s right to keep and bear arms.

He didn't write that. It was a quote.
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So say you, but who in hell are you? Whether he wrote it or copied it or simply repeated it verbally to others doesn’t negate the fact that it’s associated with Jefferson and his attitude and opinions about the individual right to keep and bear arms.

"This is not something Jefferson wrote, but rather comes from a passage he included in his "Legal Commonplace Book." The passage is from Cesare Beccaria's Essay on Crimes and Punishments.[1] It appears in Jefferson's commonplace book.
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Why did he include it in his “Legal Commonplace Book?”

Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788

That was an opinion, again, connected to the VA constitution. And again, it never made it to it.
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And your argument, opposition to that is what?

Again...Henry was speaking of the Va. Constitution. Are you aware he refused to attend the Constitutional Convention? Are you aware he was relieved of leading the Va troops during the Revolution because of his erratic behavior. I'll give you this much...Henry was the precursor to today's teabagger.
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He also said “Give me liberty or give me death.” Your opposition to that is what?

Not a word about guns. Could be a knife...
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And in today’s world it would likely be an AR15, AK47 or even a fully automatic machine gun.

Why are you repeating this again? I've already proven he didn't say it. You're regurgitating some serious fail, here, buddy...
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The only thing you’ve actually proven is that a Green Party Hack says he didn’t say it and ideologically suspicious people claim they can’t find it among his writings. Of course you’d call that “proof.” I call it “grasping at straws.” You have absolutely “NO” evidence that Jefferson or the majority of our founders were gun control nut cases or precursors of the fucking lunatic left anti-self-defense Wussies that plague American society today.
 
Classic Liberal said:
The web site works for me!

What’s your evidence that the “Monticello Foundation” isn’t an operation staffed by leftwing ideologues with a leftwing agenda who conveniently can’t find particular Jefferson quotes? Where’s your evidence that Jefferson ever said anything that supports any leftwing ideology of gun control? How did the Second Amendment make it into the Constitution if the founders and the nation were gun control nuts?



What did and didn’t make it into the Virginia Constitution is irrelevant. It’s evidence of Jefferson’s support of the individual’s right to keep and bear arms.



So say you, but who in hell are you? Whether he wrote it or copied it or simply repeated it verbally to others doesn’t negate the fact that it’s associated with Jefferson and his attitude and opinions about the individual right to keep and bear arms.



Why did he include it in his “Legal Commonplace Book?”



And your argument, opposition to that is what?



He also said “Give me liberty or give me death.” Your opposition to that is what?



And in today’s world it would likely be an AR15, AK47 or even a fully automatic machine gun.



The only thing you’ve actually proven is that a Green Party Hack says he didn’t say it and ideologically suspicious people claim they can’t find it among his writings. Of course you’d call that “proof.” I call it “grasping at straws.” You have absolutely “NO” evidence that Jefferson or the majority of our founders were gun control nut cases or precursors of the fucking lunatic left anti-self-defense Wussies that plague American society today.
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So the Monticello Foundation is "Green Party hacks" simply because they proved you wrong?

Can you prove they're "Green Party hacks"?
 
Howey said:
So the Monticello Foundation is "Green Party hacks" simply because they proved you wrong?

Can you prove they're "Green Party hacks"?
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Did I say they were “Green Party Hacks” ole Howey? Of course not! I actually said their “agenda was suspicious” meaning they could be staffed and or conducted by leftwing kooks.

Anyhow, your argument is totally irrelevant to the proposition established by the Virtual President that the most important reason for an armed citizenry was to resist tyranny in government. So very noticeably you failed as usual to address that fact and make any rational argument in opposition to it. Instead you argue with attempted distraction of the actual issue with irrelevant and improvable accusations about Jefferson. You see ole Howey it matters not whether Jefferson said it or not, the truth of it remains the same. Rational and free people actually believe in “Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death” ole Howey!!!!!!!
 
christiefan915 said:
Apple, where'd you disappear to? Hope you're not having health problems.
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Hi Christie! (And Rana for thanking the post.) No, I'm fine. Thank-you for thinking of me. I've been busy lately with one thing and another. I meant to get back here sooner.

Thanks, again, for the concern. :)
 
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