Theory vs reality: why Market absolutism doesnt work

evince

evince

Truthmatters
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/columnists/Partridge/partridge_12_18_08.htm


A good read


Looking back through history, we might wonder how it is possible that intelligent and educated people once accepted uncritically such notions as astrology, judicial trial-by-combat, the demon-possession theory of disease, and alchemy. Today, more and more sophisticated observers of society and politics are wondering how homo economicus, a creature bereft of sympathy, humanity, and noble aspiration, and "the perfect market," a "place" devoid of any social contacts more elevated than market transactions, ever came to be regarded by our political elites as the foundation of a just political order.
 
Because they believe that if everyone does for themselves what they believe is best for themselves, without physically hurting anyone else, more good will be collectively accomplished than in any other scheme.
 
Watermark said:
Because they believe that if everyone does for themselves what they believe is best for themselves, without physically hurting anyone else, more good will be collectively accomplished than in any other scheme.
Click to expand...

Incorrect: The answer is because what's collectively accomplished isn't worth ANYTHING if people aren't allowed to do what they think is best for themselves while respecting the rights of others.

The individual is worth more than the group, and as such a system that values individualism and personal accomplishment is the tried and true best system there is.

You cannot save anyone if they choose not to save themselves. And you'll ruin it for everyone else if that's what you try to do.
 
The theory posits a being that dosent exsist in reality.

This may be why history has never had a period of time in which this theory has been proven to work as suggested.
 
Desh said:
The theory posits a being that dosent exsist in reality.

This may be why history has never had a period of time in which this theory has been proven to work as suggested.
Click to expand...

Nothing lives up to its ideal form, but the last one hundred years have seen huge strides in the quality of life of all peoples in the industrialized world. It (mostly) works because (most) of us are living very well compared to our great grandparents.
 
Let's say a run on the bank happened, and the economy is about to shutdown, so the government shuts down banks for a while and tries to correct the situation, opens them back up, and so averts a depression. Why is this situation worth less than the depression?
 
Desh said:
The theory posits a being that dosent exsist in reality.

This may be why history has never had a period of time in which this theory has been proven to work as suggested.
Click to expand...

sure it exists...just because you don't want to participate in such an ideal does not mean it does not exist
 
Desh said:
Most of who ?
Click to expand...

I already said. Most of the people living in the free industrialized nations. Our life spans have increased astronomically and we live comfortably with much less stress than our ancestors.

Watermark said:
Why not?
Click to expand...

Because freedom is the most important thing we have, and whether or not we cherish it this is ultimately the only thing that really matters. When we die, we're dead. But when we're alive, we can either be free or we can be slaves. Most would say that the former is better, but when we sacrifice individual freedoms for the good of a (or the) group, we are working against that.

Watermark said:
Let's say a run on the bank happened, and the economy is about to shutdown, so the government shuts down banks for a while and tries to correct the situation, opens them back up, and so averts a depression. Why is this situation worth less than the depression?
Click to expand...

I am not claiming that it is. And neither am I one of the anarcho-capitalists that you speak of. The government has a purpose to keep the wheels spinning, but it isn't supposed to have any real control over it beyond that.

I am not speaking of absolutes concerning any of this, but I am detailing the general ideals behind the basis of modern western civilization. Or at least, what it was meant to be.
 
Yurt said:
sure it exists...just because you don't want to participate in such an ideal does not mean it does not exist
Click to expand...


The being used in the theory is a fictional human being which does not exsist.

I think you need to read the article.
 
Desh said:
The being used in the theory is a fictional human being which does not exsist.

I think you need to read the article.
Click to expand...

really....let's do this then....


Market absolutism has led us to this crisis because its proponents in academia, politics and the media have been bewitched by theoretical concepts that apply imperfectly, if at all, to the real world in which we live and work. In particular: they posit an imaginary creature (“economic man”) that inhabits a mythical environment (the “perfect market.”)
Click to expand...

this is a mischaracterization..."they" do not posit a perfect market, if "they" do, they are wrong, for nothing is perfect on this earth. i notice the lack of citations for this opinion...shocking and full of awe....

Ayn Rand never said we are all perfect...she talks about an idea and that idea is not perfect. i suggest you read her writings.....

the quotes your article uses re: PERFECT free market:

“In the free market, the individual would have to produce a good that the other person desired in order to receive a good in return. Adam Smith's "invisible hand" of the market guides all participants in society to promote the best wishes of everyone else by pursuing his own wants and desires.” (Jacob Halbrooks)

“[T]he free market allows more people to satisfy more of their desires, and ultimately to enjoy a higher standard of living than any other social system... We need simply to remember to let the market process work in its apparent magic and not let the government clumsily intervene in it so deeply that it grinds to a halt." (David Boaz, Libertarianism, a Primer, p. 40, 185.)

"A free market [co-ordinates] the activity of millions of people, each seeking his own interest, in such a way as to make everyone better off... Economic order can emerge as the unintended consequence of the actions of many people, each seeking his own interest." (Milton and Rose Friedman: Free to Choose, pp 13-14).
Click to expand...

the glaring fault in your assertion is the lack of PERFECT.....
 
The flaw in all this is there are no perfect markets. The markets are always stacked one way or another by laws created by corporate cronies known as legislators. market forces are real but they are also manipulated to achieve certain ends.
 
Last edited:
Famov-- Your lifestyle and standard of living argument will soon be nullified. The internationalist fascists have created a material bubble in the west so the people would trust the financial system they have created. It;s popping now, and the people that wish to enslave us are firmly in control of government apparatus that they can control all activity directly, by controlling liquidity and using the state to suppress activity they don;t approve of, in the name of the environment.
 
Great read Desh.

I've been saying for a few months that the last election was more about the failure of conservative ideology than McCain vs Obama. The quickest way to loose an election and power is to have a negative effect on the pocketbook of the middle class. The economic policies of this country since Reagan has come to fruition and has done that (negative effect on the pocketbook) and now the failed Chicago School theology is hopefully making it's last swirl down the toilet. I hope we can begin to get back to sane policies that will benefit America and not multi-national corporations.
 
I really wish we could just get about the business of creating good sound laws to temper the distructive tendancies of the market on the greater economy instaed of hearing the same "Magic Market" bullshit every time we need to fix the mess their deregulation causes over and over and over.
 
Desh said:
I really wish we could just get about the business of creating good sound laws to temper the distructive tendancies of the market on the greater economy instaed of hearing the same "Magic Market" bullshit every time we need to fix the mess their deregulation causes over and over and over.
Click to expand...

why are you ignoring my post i made just for you desh?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top