Tired of being quagmired

[Guns Guns Guns]

America marks the 10th anniversary this week of the Afghanistan conflict, the longest running war in the nation's history. And since the first U.S. troops headed to the mountains and valleys of the Hindu Kush in October 2001, the United States entered yet another war in Iraq.

"These wars, this time period has been unique in our history," said Paul Taylor, one of the authors of a study published Wednesday by the Pew Research Center. "This has been the longest period of sustained conflict in our history and the fight has been carried by the smallest share."

While Americans remain supportive of their all-volunteer military (only one half of 1% of the population has been on active duty service in the past decade), the length of the conflicts has reshaped attitudes toward war and sacrifice, the survey found.
​

• 45% said neither of the wars fought after the September 11, 2001, attacks has been worth the cost...

• Half of the public say the wars have made little difference...
  ​

​

• The Pew poll found ambivalence even among post-9/11 veterans. Just half said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% feel that way about Iraq and only one-third said both wars were worth the costs.​

  ​

  ​

Can America - or the world - afford another reckless Republican administration?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/us/war-attitudes/#1_undefined,0_​

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​

 

[apple0154]

America marks the 10th anniversary this week of the Afghanistan conflict, the longest running war in the nation's history. And since the first U.S. troops headed to the mountains and valleys of the Hindu Kush in October 2001, the United States entered yet another war in Iraq.

"These wars, this time period has been unique in our history," said Paul Taylor, one of the authors of a study published Wednesday by the Pew Research Center. "This has been the longest period of sustained conflict in our history and the fight has been carried by the smallest share."

While Americans remain supportive of their all-volunteer military (only one half of 1% of the population has been on active duty service in the past decade), the length of the conflicts has reshaped attitudes toward war and sacrifice, the survey found.
​

• 45% said neither of the wars fought after the September 11, 2001, attacks has been worth the cost...

• Half of the public say the wars have made little difference...
  ​

​

• The Pew poll found ambivalence even among post-9/11 veterans. Just half said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% feel that way about Iraq and only one-third said both wars were worth the costs.​

  ​

  ​

Can America - or the world - afford another reckless Republican administration?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/us/war-attitudes/#1_undefined,0_​

​

​

As I was surfing the net I came across an article positing the reason for the invasion of Iraq was due to the expected return of the Annunaki. Iraq, formerly known as Sumer, is supposedly where the Annuaki first arrived from Nibiru (Planet X) and taught us earthlings civilization. The article goes on to explain the looting of the museums was planned in order to get the artifacts relating to the aliens.

The western powers wanted to insure they controlled the "vacation destination" should the Annunaki return in 2012.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

As I was surfing the net I came across an article positing the reason for the invasion of Iraq was due to the expected return of the Annunaki. Iraq, formerly known as Sumer, is supposedly where the Annuaki first arrived from Nibiru (Planet X) and taught us earthlings civilization. The article goes on to explain the looting of the museums was planned in order to get the artifacts relating to the aliens. The western powers wanted to insure they controlled the "vacation destination" should the Annunaki return in 2012.

Makes about as much sense as the hunt for WMD that turned into a crusade for human rights when none could be found.

I wonder who Perry wants to invade?

 

[Crashk]

Pakistan

 

[zappasguitar]

America marks the 10th anniversary this week of the Afghanistan conflict, the longest running war in the nation's history. And since the first U.S. troops headed to the mountains and valleys of the Hindu Kush in October 2001, the United States entered yet another war in Iraq.

"These wars, this time period has been unique in our history," said Paul Taylor, one of the authors of a study published Wednesday by the Pew Research Center. "This has been the longest period of sustained conflict in our history and the fight has been carried by the smallest share."

While Americans remain supportive of their all-volunteer military (only one half of 1% of the population has been on active duty service in the past decade), the length of the conflicts has reshaped attitudes toward war and sacrifice, the survey found.
​

• 45% said neither of the wars fought after the September 11, 2001, attacks has been worth the cost...

• Half of the public say the wars have made little difference...
  ​

​

• The Pew poll found ambivalence even among post-9/11 veterans. Just half said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% feel that way about Iraq and only one-third said both wars were worth the costs.​

  ​

  ​

Can America - or the world - afford another reckless Republican administration?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/us/war-attitudes/#1_undefined,0_​

​

​

Awwwwwww...you mean this isn't about the Griffin's wacky neighbor Glen Quagmire on Family Guy?

 

[Damocles]

Makes about as much sense as the hunt for WMD that turned into a crusade for human rights when none could be found.

I wonder who Perry wants to invade?

Iran?

 

[Rune]

To the Afghans, this (our) war is just beginning.
The miserable living conditions they endur are hardly made worse by war. (the members of the Taliban)
Meanwhile, 9 billion per month now dribbles down the drain, nearly 2000 american soldiers are dead, uncounted wounded and dead Afghans number in the scores of thousands.

The Afhghans will no sooner give up this fight than americans would if we were invaded.
It has gotten so ridiculous tht even four GOP presidential candidates want to accelerate our withdrawal, yet they have a hard time doing that while deflecting criticism from their fellows, as being soft on national security.

War in Afghanistan bankrupted U.S.S.R.
We are not far behind.
This is a war we can never win.
Let's stop the bleeding.

 

[Damocles]

Don't forget we fund both sides of that war. We give the money to the Pakistanis, who turn around and fund the groups who are fighting us...

We absolutely need to get off foreign energy and nobody is working on it, and don't give me the "green economy" rubbish. We are still undercut by our "trade partners" and it creates no fricking jobs here, that is still foreign energy teat...

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Don't forget we fund both sides of that war. We give the money to the Pakistanis, who turn around and fund the groups who are fighting us...We absolutely need to get off foreign energy and nobody is working on it, and don't give me the "green economy" rubbish. We are still undercut by our "trade partners" and it creates no fricking jobs here, that is still foreign energy teat...

So converting cars to alternative fuels such as hydrogen is rubbish?

Do you want a nuclear plant in your backyard?

Think "drill, baby, drill" will lead to $2 gas?

 

[Rune]

Electric cars use entirely domestic energy.

 

[Damocles]

So converting cars to alternative fuels such as hydrogen is rubbish?

Nope, this is good stuff. I prefer LNG for a crossover though as we build that technology in a workable fashion. LNG has benefits, such as the fact that the technology currently exists, cheap conversion for current autos, converted vehicles can use both LNG and gasoline, the infrastructure needed to deliver our own LNG to gas pumps will create jobs, LNG or propane both burn cleaner and are plentiful in the US. Unlike oil, which is plentiful but the wrong kind to cheaply obtain. Shale in CO would be expensive to gather, Nat Gas or Propane not so much.

Do you want a nuclear plant in your backyard?

Better than a terrorist in my plane and a lost decade trying to fix the damage on our economy after the attack then trillions spent somewhere that the wrong people are being "punished" as we drop million dollar bombs on $3 mud huts.

Think "drill, baby, drill" will lead to $2 gas?

While we do need to drill, it will not give us $2 gas.

 

[apple0154]

Electric cars use entirely domestic energy.

Here's what's needed.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Electric cars use entirely domestic energy.

Which is generated by foreign oil in some cases.

The US will never be energy independent as long as we mainly consume fossil fuels.

 

[Damocles]

Electric cars use entirely domestic energy.

Not when the electricity is generated using foreign energy sources. Nor is it necessarily true that they are less polluting as the energy generated to fuel the cars is often generated in a way that is less "green" than just fueling up.

Anyway, electric cars that don't work in cold weather is not a viable solution for most of this nation. Let's use something that actually works, is not terribly expensive to convert to, and actually gives more options rather than limiting options. A national drive to get off the foreign oil teat may end with electric cars and hydrogen cells, but the technology is just not there at this time.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Not when the electricity is generated using foreign energy sources. Nor is it necessarily true that they are less polluting as the energy generated to fuel the cars is often generated in a way that is less "green" than just fueling up. Anyway, electric cars that don't work in cold weather is not a viable solution for most of this nation. Let's use something that actually works, is not terribly expensive to convert to, and actually gives more options rather than limiting options. A national drive to get off the foreign oil teat may end with electric cars and hydrogen cells, but the technology is just not there at this time.

How is the technology to expand the availaibility and use of hydrogen-fueled cars "just not there at this time"?

 

[Damocles]

How is the technology to expand the availaibility and use of hydrogen-fueled cars "just not there at this time"?

Tell me the hydrogen fuel cell driven vehicle that is large-scale commercially available, works in all weather conditions, can run pickup trucks, etc. and you might have a point.

The technology isn't available to the vast majority of the nation because it isn't viable.

Simple conversion to LNG or propane is available everywhere, is inexpensive to do, and will run pick up trucks, etc... it is absolutely a viable interim solution as we work towards the technology that is promising, but not yet ready for the big time.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Tell me the hydrogen fuel cell driven vehicle that is large-scale commercially available, works in all weather conditions, can run pickup trucks, etc. and you might have a point. The technology isn't available to the vast majority of the nation because it isn't viable. Simple conversion to LNG or propane is available everywhere, is inexpensive to do, and will run pick up trucks, etc... it is absolutely a viable interim solution as we work towards the technology that is promising, but not yet ready for the big time.

You are correct in saying cold weather is problematic, however stating that the technology doesn't exist is incorrect.

It's the infrastructure and the political will to create it that's lacking.

I notice that the auto manufacturers are moving toward all-electric cars now, which IMO solves nothing as far as energy dependence goes.

 

[Damocles]

You are correct in saying cold weather is problematic, however stating that the technology doesn't exist is incorrect.

It's the infrastructure and the political will to create it that's lacking.

I notice that the auto manufacturers are moving toward all-electric cars now, which IMO solves nothing as far as energy dependence goes.

Mostly because it is what the administration wants, rather than the most logical thing.

These electronic cars are problematic, for reasons I have listed previous in the thread.

If Hydrogen was commercially viable it would be available even without a political will. I'm certainly not against it, I'm just for an interim solution that solves many of our problems including actually building things here in the US...

A viable solution that works every day in vehicles we run on bus routes, etc. is available. It works in all weather conditions, and isn't too expensive to do, can convert current vehicles to be backward compatible, and uses a form of energy we have in plentiful supply here in the US. We don't use it because this Administration doesn't want it, it and the previous administration are and were beholden to oil and ideologues.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Mostly because it is what the administration wants, rather than the most logical thing. These electronic cars are problematic, for reasons I have listed previous in the thread. If Hydrogen was commercially viable it would be available even without a political will. I'm certainly not against it, I'm just for an interim solution that solves many of our problems including actually building things here in the US...A viable solution that works every day in vehicles we run on bus routes, etc. is available. It works in all weather conditions, and isn't too expensive to do, can convert current vehicles to be backward compatible, and uses a form of energy we have in plentiful supply here in the US. We don't use it because this Administration doesn't want it, it and the previous administration are and were beholden to oil and ideologues.

Don't forget the coal and corn (ethanol) lobbies....

 

[Rune]

I notice that the auto manufacturers are moving toward all-electric cars now, which IMO solves nothing as far as energy dependence goes.

How do you figure?

This chart show that only 1% of our electricity is from oil;



Sources of electricity in the U.S. in 2009[SUP][2][/SUP] fossil fuel generation (mainly coal) was the largest source.

Electric cars are the fastest way to eliminate dependence on foreign oil.