To BAC and all lost on the reality regarding Iraq

WRL

WRL

Well...the right is right
blackascoal said:
It appears that you spoke too soon .. the lies told before the war have been exposed to the waek of mind, because most of planet earth already knew.

Are you sure you wish to continue this little mano-mano, dude?

Perhaps you should do some study first.

Start with ALL .. as in EVERY damn thing the inspectors said about Iraq not possessing WMD is now known to be absolutely correct.

In your diminished state, I don't want to be percieved as taking advantage of the blind .. so go here and brush up before you step in the ring.
http://www.iraqwar.org/adminlies.htm

Your move .. don't want to overload you with homework.

You will be supremely spanked.
Click to expand...

wow you talk a lot of smack for someone lost in propaganda... That crappy link is the mainstream source for all this talk??? I've seriously debated even continuing here, but since you called me out...


Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?
Yes. Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship provided headquarters, operating bases, training camps, and other support to terrorist. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam commissioned several failed terrorist attacks on U.S. facilities. The State Department has listed Iraq as a state sponsor of terrorism through both Democrat and Republican administrations.

http://cfrterrorism.org/sponsors/iraq.html

Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers, and dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.
(Warning very graphic)
http://www.firethistime.org/halabjavictims.jpg
http://www.iraqdigest.com/Halabja-.jpg


Coalition troops destroyed terrorist training camps
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040703.asp


Saddam Hussein paid bonuses of up to $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, formerly the director of an al Qaeda training base in Afghanistan, fled to Iraq after being shot as the Taliban fell. He crossed Iran to flee into Iraq, where he was treated in state operated hospital. His safe place to fall back to was Iraq, were he set up terrorist operations against a common enemy al qeada and Saddam shared, the Kurds.


The weapons inspectors

Even in the absence if actual WMDs, those who combed through the remains of Saddam’s regime in Iraq have already turned up incontrovertible evidence of intent. Dr. David Kay, the chief arms investigator, reported results to congress, he found:

1.) A clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment for continuing chemical and Biological weapons research.

2.) A prison laboratory complex used in human testing of BW agents, which Iraqi officials were explicitly order not to report to the UN.

3.) New research on BW-applicable agents, Burcella and Congo Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin, which were not declared to the UN and done in secret.

4.) Documents and equipment, hidden in scientist’s homes that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation.

5.) Reference strains used to produce biological weapons concealed in scientist’s home

6.) A line of UAV’s undeclared and that tested way out of range, with weapons delivering abilities.

7.) Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, and Iraqi scientist’s admission of concealment from the UN.

8.) Plans and designs for long range missilery with ranges of up to 1000 km, well beyond the imposed UN limits

9.) Clandestine attempts at obtaining long range missilery from the N. Korean’s.


Any way you slice it,

there’s no denying Saddam’s intent- not only to develop prohibited weaponry, but to destroy all traces of any weapon.

“In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts” Dr. Kay told Congress,

“We have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documents and computers evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html


UN Security Council resolutions on Iraq, threatening war, now just imagine this in our own terms, would you be ok with a murderer getting a slap on the wrist and a reprimand this many times to run free in your community.

1490, 1483, 1476, 1472, 1454, 1443, 1441, 1409, 1382, 1360, 1352, 1330, 1302, 1293, 1284, 1281, 1280, 1275, 1266, 1242, 1210, 1205, 1194, 1175, 1158, 1154, 1153, 1143, 1137, 1134, 1129, 1115, 1111, 1060, 1051, 986, 949, 899, 806, 778, 773, 715, 712, 707, 706, 705, 699, 692, 689, 688, 687, 686, 685, 678, 677, 676, 674, 671, 670, 669, 667, 666, 665, 664, 662, 661, 660

13 years of failed diplomacy for this...

Saddam was bribing the international community through the UN, to prevent any action on these many, many, resolutions he was flaunting. Saddam was setting the precedence to bribe your way through the UN, and the corrupt body has yet to do anything serious to reform itself.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/saddam_oil_vouchers_040129-4.html

Saddam’s Gifts
Document: Saddam Supporters Received Lucrative Oil Contracts Continued

Russia
Head of the Russian Presidential Cabinet: 90 million
The Companies of the Russian Communist Party: 137 million
The Companies of the Liberal Democratic Party: 79.8 million

France
Bernard Merimee, French ambassador to the United Nations: 3 million
Charles Pasqua, minister of interior: 12 million

Palestinian Territories
The Palestinian Liberation Organization: 4 million
Abu Al Abbas: 11.5 million

Libya
Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem: 1 million

Syria
Firas Mostafa Tlass, son of Syria's defense minister: 6 million

Turkey
Zeynel Abidin Erdem: more than 27 million
Lotfy Doghan: more than 11 million

Indonesia
Megawati Sukarnoputri: 11 million

Spain
Ali Ballout, 8.8 million

Canada
Arthur Millholland, 9.5 million


9/11 Commission findings...

Bin Laden aided a group of Islamist extremists operating in Kurdistan. In the late 1990s, these extremist groups suffered major defeats by Kurdish forces. In 2001, with Bin Ladin’s help they re-formed into an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications that

the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar al Islam

-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04

With the Sudanese regime acting as intermediary, Bin Ladin himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officers in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995… the ensuing years saw additional efforts to establish connections.


-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04

On November 4, 1998, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York unsealed its indictment of Bin Ladin. The indictment added that al Qaeda had “reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.”109


-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04


4_CompM2-US-Army.jpg
 
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Long story short, the fact is this is a cultural war, terrorists are breed this way through fundamentalists schools, and get it re-enforced with a steady bombardment of state run media, it's all day everyday , they have been created, and now we have the ability to change those institution's radicalizing this religion. For the first time in a long time, a huge swath of the Middle East has a generation with a chance to grow without radical Islam dominating their development. Its not a war against Islam, it's a war against the foundations of radical Islam.


Take Iraq...

Saddam Husein and his state run media, promoting and propagating terrorism.

U.S.S. Cole Bombing, October 12, 2000
"[Iraqis] should intensify struggle and jihad in all fields and by all means..."
Iraq TV, October 22, 2000 (State-controlled)

"Does [America] realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?"
Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994

"The real perpetrators [of September 11] are within the collapsed buildings."
Alif-Ba, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

"[O]ur striking arm will reach [America, Britain and Saudi Arabia] before they know what hit them."
Al-Qadisiyah, October 6, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


"One chemical weapon fired in a moment of despair could cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands." Al-Quds al-Arabi, October 12, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996
"[The U.S.] should send more coffins to Saudi Arabia, because no one can guess what the future has in store."
Saddam Hussein, Iraqi Radio, June 27, 1996


"[September 11 was] God's punishment."
Al-Iktisadi, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)


The Attacks of September 11
"The United States reaps the thorns its rulers have planted in the world."
Saddam Hussein, September 12, 2001


"If the attacks of September 11 cost the lives of 3,000 civilians, how much will the size of losses in 50 states within 100 cities if it were attacked in the same way in which New York and Washington were? What would happen if hundreds of planes attacked American cities?"
Al-Rafidayn, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/iraq/sadquots.htm __________________
 
DigitalDave said:
You spent too much time out of your day....

So, how's McCain's economic policy coming?
Click to expand...

Our country is in a crisis, a 9 trillion dollar debt, an evaporating dollar, trade agreements that force Americans to compete with Chinese child slave labor as they manipulate their currency, we are fighting two wars that can either be won by determination, rewarding us with trade and defense deals like those following WWII in Europe and Asia that have enriched us all, or we can withdrawal, only to be sucked into WWIII in less than ten years. I may spend to much time but WAKE UP AMERICA

As far as McCain's economic policies, they're as soundly Conservative as they where yesterday, reduce spending, end pork barrel spending. Our 9 trillion dollar debt with no looking back, has the dollar tanking, and only McCain is taking the issue up. What is needed for the economy is sound fiscal discipline to our creditors, and working that debt off. China owns a trillion in T Bills, giving them incredible leverage over our economy, foreign investors just bought 60% of the largest US Mortgage lenders, CitiBank, shoots in the arm, populism, isn't going to save this economy, sound fiscal discipline can.

Only John McCain offers this. Romney doesn't offer this...
 
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EOTech 4x Magnifier w/Fixed Quick Release Mount

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EOTech Holographic Sight HWS 4X Magnifier is an affordable magnified solution that will transition a fielded HWS into a lethal medium range optic. Superior light transmission and a large field of view helps this Eotech 4x Magnifier put the competition to shame. This rugged, streamlined optic offers split-second transitioning from CQB to medium range targeting. Night Vision Compatible. Vastly improved accuracy at medium range distances
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LOL

"Our 9 trillion dollar debt with no looking back, has the dollar tanking, and only McCain is taking the issue up."

Only McCain got made to look like a moron in the Florida Debate on economy. Claimed he never said he didn't know much about the economy (which he did BTW), then Paul asks him a question about the economy, and he couldn't answer it. I love how you blindly follow the guy.

Romney's no better... but this is a funny clip from the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlIMQ31EjY
 
The guy might not have a PHD in economics, but he has some of the soundest advisor's, like Phil Gramm.

Gramm and Senators Fritz Hollings and Warren Rudman devised a means of cutting the budget through indiscriminate, across-the-board spending cuts if deficit-reduction targets were not met...

Sounds like he's got the right people on board to me, and I trust him more with the lives of a more valuable resource, our troops lives.
 
DigitalDave said:
LOL

"Our 9 trillion dollar debt with no looking back, has the dollar tanking, and only McCain is taking the issue up."

Only McCain got made to look like a moron in the Florida Debate on economy. Claimed he never said he didn't know much about the economy (which he did BTW), then Paul asks him a question about the economy, and he couldn't answer it. I love how you blindly follow the guy.

Romney's no better... but this is a funny clip from the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlIMQ31EjY
Click to expand...

Who's whispering?
 
Let's see .. this conversation began in another thread .. then Mr. Dosn't have a clue RAN AWAY to start another thread talking the same stupid as a motherfucker brain-dead ignorance with the dumbest questions this side of a lobotomy. You RAN because you have no clue how to answer the questions put to you, so you RAN AWAY to avoid them.

This from the very same dummy who claimed liberals don't know how to debate.

Has Saddam ever used chemical weapons? .. what in the fuck does that have to do with the PROVEN deception of the attack on Iraq? The chemical weapons he did use, he got from us .. dummy.

I will state again .. and in every fucking thread you cowardly RUN AWAY to create .. EVERY FUCKING THING THE WEAPONS INSPECTORS SAID ABOUT SADDAM NOT POSSESSING WMD BEFORE THE WAR HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH .. DUMMY.

How about this .. straight from the horses mouth ...

Now He Tells Us
By Robert Scheer
April 12, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/34861/

The president played the scoundrel -- even the best of his minions went along with the lies -- and when a former ambassador dared to tell the truth, the White House initiated what Special Prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald calls "a plan to discredit, punish or seek revenge against Mr. Wilson." That is the important story line.

If not for the whistle-blower, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, President Bush's falsehoods about the Iraq nuclear threat likely would never have been exposed.

On Monday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told me that he and his department's top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim.

Now he tells us.

The harsh truth is that this president cherry-picked the intelligence data in making his case for invading Iraq and deliberately kept the public in the dark as to the countervailing analysis at the highest level of the intelligence community. While the president and his top Cabinet officials were fear-mongering with stark images of a "mushroom cloud" over American cities, the leading experts on nuclear weaponry at the Department of Energy (the agency in charge of the U.S. nuclear-weapons program) and the State Department thought the claim of a near-term Iraqi nuclear threat was absurd.

"The activities we have detected do not, however, add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing what INR would consider to be an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquire nuclear weapons," said a dissenting analysis from an assistant secretary of state for intelligence and research (INR) in the now infamous 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq, which was cobbled together for the White House before the war. "Iraq may be doing so but INR considers the available evidence inadequate to support such a judgment."

The specter of the Iraqi nuclear threat was primarily based on an already-discredited claim that Iraq had purchased aluminum tubes for the purpose of making nuclear weapons. In fact, at the time, the INR wrote in the National Intelligence Estimate that it "accepts the judgment of technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) who have concluded that the tubes Iraq seeks to acquire are poorly suited for use in gas centrifuges to be used for uranium enrichment and finds unpersuasive the arguments advanced by others to make the case that they are intended for that purpose."

The other major evidence President Bush gave Americans for a revitalized Iraq nuclear program, of course, was his 2003 State of the Union claim -- later found to be based on forged documents -- that a deal had been made to obtain uranium from Niger. This deal was exposed within the administration as bogus before the president's speech in January by Ambassador Wilson, who traveled to Niger for the CIA. Wilson only went public with his criticisms in an op-ed piece in the New York Times a half year later in response to what he charged were the administration's continued distortion of the evidence. In excerpts later made available to the public, it is clear that the Niger claim doesn't even appear as a key finding in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, while the INR dissent in that document dismisses it curtly: "[T]he claims of Iraqi pursuit of natural uranium in Africa are, in INR's assessment highly dubious."

I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?

"The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote," Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush's State of the Union speech? "That was a big mistake," he said. "It should never have been in the speech. I didn't need Wilson to tell me that there wasn't a Niger connection. He didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I never believed it."

When I pressed further as to why the president played up the Iraq nuclear threat, Powell said it wasn't the president: "That was all Cheney." A convenient response for a Bush family loyalist, perhaps, but it begs the question of how the president came to be a captive of his vice president's fantasies.

More important: Why was this doubt, on the part of the secretary of state and others, about the salient facts justifying the invasion of Iraq kept from the public until we heard the truth from whistle-blower Wilson, whose credibility the president then sought to destroy? In matters of national security, when a president leaks, he lies.

By selectively releasing classified information to suit his political purposes, as President Bush did in this case, he is denying that there was a valid basis for keeping the intelligence findings secret in the first place. "We ought to get to the bottom of it, so it can be evaluated by the American people," said Sen. Arlen Specter, the Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I couldn't have put it any better.

You've got to be the absolute dumbest person on this board to suggest Iraq was not a deception with all that is known today.

AND, Oh YES .. I have lots more to spank your dumb ass with.
 
Where are you dummy?

Study: Bush, Other Officials Issued Hundreds of False Statements Before Iraq Invasion

DOUGLASS K. DANIEL
AP News
Jan 22, 2008
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Study_False_statements_preceded_war_01222008.html

A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.

The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews.

"The cumulative effect of these false statements — amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts — was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded.

"Some journalists — indeed, even some entire news organizations — have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said.
 
blackascoal said:
Where are you dummy?

Study: Bush, Other Officials Issued Hundreds of False Statements Before Iraq Invasion

DOUGLASS K. DANIEL
AP News
Jan 22, 2008
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Study_False_statements_preceded_war_01222008.html

A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.

The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews.

"The cumulative effect of these false statements — amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts — was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded.

"Some journalists — indeed, even some entire news organizations — have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said.
Click to expand...
I know some of you paid attention in history class. It is called "the big lie" Say WMD's and Yellow Cake and links with Al Qaeda enough times and it will show up 100 times a day on each cable news network and on the three broadcast networks news and then pretty soon everyone believes it. Willie does it, Most of his cut and paste bullshit comes from the late 80's and early 90's. Our own FBI said that the more recent contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq were so Iraq could spy on Al Qaeda. Just click your heels together three times and say, Saddam was in league with Al Qaeda and it will be true.
 
lol, ran away, I brought it to it's own thread, and clearly you got OWNED here. You are clearly a far lost leftist, more than likely to far gone for redemption.

Since you really only addressed one of my points I'll retort...
Saddam had invaded nearly every one of his neighbors, used WMD indiscriminately, funded and promoted terrorism. Iraq very much fit the 'war on terror' mold, and after 13 years and countless failed UN resolutions his time ran it's course.

I've already given you nicely summed up quotes from the chief weapons inspector, and your second link was a study funded by George Soros, some unbiased source there.

You call me a coward, I think you're upset I brought this to it's own thread where you could duly get your ass handed to you..
 
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