Understanding Christianity - Questions for Christians

Stelakh said:
But Jesus himself says that both Levitical and Mosaic law are still in full force and effect.
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another lie......no where does he say the Levitical codes are still in force and effect.......the laws he does say are still in force and effect are those which were summarized by two statements......"LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"......Those two statements summarized the same laws in the OT (Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18)......

if you are done lying about the law perhaps we can finish answering your question......
 
PostmodernRacist said:
there's only one Bible.......the question is whether the translation you are using is accurate........if an inaccuracy is identified, guess what you should do.........
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That is why it is called the BuyBull Pastor.
It is full of myth lies and superstitious nonsense.
If you believe it, you Buy the Bull.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry, but that is simply an outright lie........perpetuated by those who want to disguise the truth........
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There were 611. I suggest you look to the Torah.

If you are willing to have a decent discussion without acting like an obstreperous ass, I invite you to quote for me passages where Jesus in fact states that he had come to usurp Old Testament law (Levitical OR Mosaic), because neither Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, the Acts, Paul, Romans nor any other book contain Jesus saying he came to destroy, replace or void the Old Testament.

Finally, if you cannot keep a civil tongue in your head then kindly bugger off.

Nobody else in this thread - which is intended as a serious discussion - decided to go your route, except you.

Now silence your silliness, act like an adult, or leave.
 
Stelakh said:
There were 611. I suggest you look to the Torah.

If you are willing to have a decent discussion without acting like an obstreperous ass, I invite you to quote for me passages where Jesus in fact states that he had come to usurp Old Testament law (Levitical OR Mosaic), because neither Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, the Acts, Paul, Romans nor any other book contain Jesus saying he came to destroy, replace or void the Old Testament.

Finally, if you cannot keep a civil tongue in your head then kindly bugger off.

Nobody else in this thread - which is intended as a serious discussion - decided to go your route, except you.

Now silence your silliness, act like an adult, or leave.
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Moral Law
The moral laws, or mishpatim, relate to justice and judgment and are often translated as "ordinances." Mishpatim are said to be based on God's holy nature. As such, the ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Their purpose is to promote the welfare of those who obey. The value of the laws is considered obvious by reason and common sense. The moral law encompasses regulations on justice, respect, and sexual conduct, and includes the Ten Commandments. It also includes penalties for failure to obey the ordinances. Moral law does not point people to Christ; it merely illuminates the fallen state of all mankind.

Modern Protestants are divided over the applicability of mishpatim in the church age. Some believe that Jesus' assertion that the law will remain in effect until the earth passes away (Matthew 5:18) means that believers are still bound to it. Others, however, understand that Jesus fulfilled this requirement (Matthew 5:17), and that we are instead under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is thought to be "love God and love others" (Matthew 22:36-40). Although many of the moral laws in the Old Testament give excellent examples as to how to love God and love others, and freedom from the law is not license to sin (Romans 6:15), we are not specifically bound by mishpatim.
 
Stelakh said:
I grew up in a dual-faith household. My father was Jewish and my mother was Methodist. As a child I attended both Methodist church services and Jewish temple services. We celebrated both Christian and Jewish holidays.

Our parents, with a great deal of foresight, permitted us to find our own path to faith, and that meant that my twin brother was atheist, my older brother Christian, my sister (my hippie sister who is quite possibly the most giving, honest and decent person I could ever hope to meet) is Pagan, and I identify as Jewish (although I'm a "bad Jew").

One of the reasons I decided that Christianity wasn't for me was, honestly, Christians themselves.

I've read the bible cover-to-cover many times. It has in it hope and love, peace and acceptance, joy and salvation.

And then it has some other things. Magic and sorcery, war and violence, murder and rape, misogyny and bigotry, hatred and vengeance, incest and sex.

Now, the bible in its entirety is supposed to be the word of God - directly given to humans who wrote it down. And it's a done deal. We're not adding new bits here and there (unless you count the myriad books of the bible that the Church of antiquity threw out because they didn't mesh with their views; or the Mormons).

Today, the bible is viewed as "the whole of the thing." So I have some direct questions to ask Christians about their views of the bible.

I want to make it absolutely clear that I am asking these questions in the honest attempt to get my mind around what today's Christianity actually is, versus what I see in my head that it should be based on my own reading of the bible.

I'll break the questions out to make it easier to quote when answering (and no doubt there will be other questions popping up).

Is the bible in fact the hard-coded word of God that must be followed in full?

If the answer to the above question is "Yes," then why is it that only bits and pieces of the bible are followed and not all of the Levitical and Mosaic laws?

Why is it okay to move the Sabbath to Sunday when it's clearly defined as Saturday in the bible?

Does failure to follow all of the Levitical and Mosaic laws of the Old Testament condemn Christians to hell?
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i believe that The message of Jesus is different from that of Paul. I think the author of Matthew and Paul would have had quite a debate and as we witness here, the debate continues.
 
Stelakh said:
There were 611. I suggest you look to the Torah.
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That of course, is why they are called the 611 Commandments........on the other hand, there were Ten......never more, never less.......you can find them in Deuteronomy......you can find them in Leviticus.....both are part of the Torah......
Finally, if you cannot keep a civil tongue in your head then kindly bugger off.
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I'm sorry....but if you don't like being called a liar you should stick to the truth....its not as if what you said was a matter of opinion, you realize.....nobody with an inclination to honesty would say the same thing you posted.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry, you forgot to thread ban me......
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I didn't forget.

I simply decided to let you carry on your silliness and let everyone see you for the rude, commiserable troll I've suspected you to be for quite some time.

Feel free to carry on, but if you have any respect for yourself, you are more than welcome to be an adult.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
That of course, is why they are called the 611 Commandments........on the other hand, there were Ten......never more, never less.......you can find them in Deuteronomy......you can find them in Leviticus.....both are part of the Torah......
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You are simply wrong.

You refer to the 10 ha D'varim, which consists of the 10 items that Moses came down from Mount Sinai with, and which he smashed at the foot thereof. ha D'varim means "statement."

I am referring to the 611 mitzvot (plus the first two ha D'varim), which make up a total of 613. The 611 mitzvot are the Commandments. "Mitzvot" in fact MEANS "Commandment."

You may speak all you like of the "Ten Statements" which were co-opted by the Church, but there are in fact six hundred eleven COMMANDMENTS.
 
Jarod said:
My biggest question upon reading the well reasoned and thought out discussion above is, how do you determine what is the Bible? Is it the King James Version, or one of the multitude of versions before or after KJV?
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You ask the Holy Spirit to impart the truth to you. Eliminates translation purported manipulation.
But you have to want the truth.
 
Stelakh said:
There is something that has always bugged me about the essential dismissal of Levitical and Mosaic law, and that is what Jesus says himself.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says:



He's fulfilling law, but laws don't get fulfilled. They are obeyed, abolished or disobeyed, but they don't get fulfilled. So are we sure he means that the laws are henceforth null and void?

To complicate matters even further, in the next line (Matthew 5:18-20) he says:



So he says he's not there to destroy the law in 17, then that the law is still valid until heaven and earth pass in 18. In 19, he says that whoever breaks even the tiniest of the Commandments (there were over 600, by the way - the early Church whittled it down to 10) shall be called the "least" in heaven but those who follow the law shall be called "great." Then in 20, ye says that unless you're more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees (taken in the context of the previous statements, I'd interpret that as meaning you follow the laws better than they do), you're not getting into Heaven.

So from this alone it seems that Jesus actually doesn't set aside the Old Testament laws but in fact enforces their validity until Heaven and Earth are dead and gone, even though he "fulfills" the laws somehow.

How does that work?
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Jesus accepts responsibility for your sins.
 
Stelakh said:
but there are in fact six hundred eleven COMMANDMENTS.
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sorry.....if you want to debate Christianity I will be glad to do so, including correcting your many errors.........if you wish to discuss some fictional religion you should start another thread to accommodate the discussion....I will of course refrain from participating, not being familiar with whatever religion that might be.........
 
Stelakh said:
Now, the bible in its entirety is supposed to be the word of God - directly given to humans who wrote it down. And it's a done deal. We're not adding new bits here and there (unless you count the myriad books of the bible that the Church of antiquity threw out because they didn't mesh with their views; or the Mormons).
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Do you mean the Catholic Church?
 
PostmodernRacist said:
really?....... can you find a second idiot who calls it a BuyBull?.....
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frabz-THE-BUYBULL-IS-TRUE-It-says-so-in-the-Buybull-3ad6dd.jpg

51ydLpcMBQL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buybull
buy bull
Another term for bible, used by people who think that the bible is a load of dog shit.
I enjoy rolling joints with my copy of the Holy Buy Bull.
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http://www.amazon.com/The-Holy-Bull-Benn-Perry/dp/148205728X
images

4f6149372d027ff480b8a357edc0106d.jpg
 
Leonthecat said:
frabz-THE-BUYBULL-IS-TRUE-It-says-so-in-the-Buybull-3ad6dd.jpg

51ydLpcMBQL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buybull
buy bull

http://www.amazon.com/The-Holy-Bull-Benn-Perry/dp/148205728X
images

4f6149372d027ff480b8a357edc0106d.jpg
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buybull


on my son is going to die laughing at that one.



the bible does have historic stuff in it and is a very important book for mankind in many ways.

But like any old time history recording can NOT be taken literally.


the problem is when someone tries to pretend its infallible.


certain myths claim It is


they are just myths and its just an old history book
 
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