Unemployment 20% higher in Democrat strongholds

Mottleydude said:
Really? Well instead of using unemployment how about we use a more accurate measure of the economy, like per Capita Income (2006 figures)

Of the top 5 States (not including DC) in per Capita Income all 5 are blue States.

Connecticut - $50,000
New Jersey - $46,000
Massachusetts - $46,000
New York - $44,000
Maryland - $43,000

Of the bottom 8 States (5 are tied for 4th place) in per Capita Income all are Red states.

Mississippi - $27,000
Arkansas - $28,000
West Virginia - $28,000
Utah - $29,000
South Carolina - $29,000
New Mexico - $29,000
Kentucky - $29,000
Idaho - $29,000

So it appears Liberal States do perform better economically than Conservative States as per Capita Income is nearly double in Connecticut then it is in Mississippi.
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Of course, the cost of living puts the incomes at about equal value.
 
Threedee said:
Of course, the cost of living puts the incomes at about equal value.
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A hidden capitalistic tax?

But think longer term , with the manufacturing moving offshore, the ocst of living will drop in the manufacturing states. But so will the income.
 
How about another better indicator of economic prosperity? Education. There's a direct correlation between education and economic prosperity.

The top 10 States in the # of College Graduates are all Blue States.

Colorado - 32.7%
Connecticut - 31.4%
Massachusetts - 33.2%
Maryland - 31.4%
Virginia - 29.5%
Vermont - 29.4%
New Hampshire - 28.7%
New York - 27.4%
Washington - 27.7%
California - 26.6%

The bottom 10 States in the number with College degrees are all red States.

West Virginia - 14.8%
Arkansas - 16.7%
Mississippi - 16.9%
Kentucky - 17.1%
Nevada - 18.2%
Louisiana - 18.7%
Alabama - 19.0%
Indiana - 19.4%
Tennessee - 19.6%
Oklahoma - 20.3%

So it appears that if you wish to achieve a college degree and earn above the national per capita income your chances are better in the more productive and educated liberal States.
 
Mottleydude said:
Hmmm, did you also notice that those Blue States were also our Industrial states that produce most of our GDP where as the Red States listed are predominantly agricultural?

I wonder what the GDP is in those Blue States vs. Red States?

I wonder what the Median income is in those Blue States vs. Red States?
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So you wish to split the union? Seems where you are going.
 
Mottleydude said:
No, that's not rational because the cost of living is correlated to the quality of life. So cost of living is a non-sequeter.
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That's not true at all. The house that I own in NC would be about 3 or 4 times more in Massachusetts. Plus Mass taxes are much higher. My kids schools are better than where went to school in Mass, and they have a choice to go to a any school in the County.
 
Mottleydude said:
Really? Well instead of using unemployment how about we use a more accurate measure of the economy, like per Capita Income (2006 figures)

Of the top 5 States (not including DC) in per Capita Income all 5 are blue States.

Connecticut - $50,000
New Jersey - $46,000
Massachusetts - $46,000
New York - $44,000
Maryland - $43,000

Of the bottom 8 States (5 are tied for 4th place) in per Capita Income all are Red states.

Mississippi - $27,000
Arkansas - $28,000
West Virginia - $28,000
Utah - $29,000
South Carolina - $29,000
New Mexico - $29,000
Kentucky - $29,000
Idaho - $29,000

So it appears Liberal States do perform better economically than Conservative States as per Capita Income is nearly double in Connecticut then it is in Mississippi.
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$27k in MS will get you a better life than $50k in CT.
 
Annie said:
So you wish to split the union? Seems where you are going.
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What? Where in the world are you coming from? If I remember correctly, it's Southernman who's made the Blue State vs Red State, Liberal State vs Conservative State comparison. I just provided the data that he is wrong.
 
Southern Man said:
That's not true at all. The house that I own in NC would be about 3 or 4 times more in Massachusetts. Plus Mass taxes are much higher. My kids schools are better than where went to school in Mass, and they have a choice to go to a any school in the County.
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Bull shit. You're giving one mans opinion vs hard cold across the board data. Massachusetts, as a liberal State, has way higher per capital income than Mississippi and I've just shown irrefutable evidence that more people achieve higher levels of education, across the board, in MA then they do in Mississippi.

Also a house in MA may cost more than a house in MS but the house will be built to a higher standard and quality in MA and though taxes may be higher there's a higher level of public service available, more and better schools, more and better infrastructure, such as roads, water works, airports, hospitals, police services, fire services, etc, etc. So you're claim that per capita income is equalized by cost of living is just completely rediculous as cost of living is directly correlated to a higher quality of living and saying your personal experience negates the cold hard facts is a weak argument.

The cold hard facts are that the more liberal states have a more prosperous and productive economies then the more conservative states. So you're contention is obviously wrong in the face of the facts.
 
Whenever I read these stats I wonder how we got here and what can we do. Obviously trickle down doesn't work as you only need so many Bentleys and Yachts. Does outsourcing work as call most companies for help or questions and you get a foreign nation. Do the lack of Unions work as people who make less spend less. Does the lack of UHC help as businesses weigh a US hire or a foreign hire. Does making cheap stuff in China help. Do walmart wages and lack of benefits help. Does buying foreign cars help. Does shipping pre-made furniture from China help. Does clothing from Malaysian help. Does a lack of reasonable priced eduction and retraining help. Does purchasing everything overseas help. Some say yes but do they.

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm
http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/25/beaton.html

"The conclusion is that, if anything, tax increases on higher-income families are the least damaging mechanism for closing state fiscal deficits in the short run. Reductions in government spending on goods and services, or reductions in transfer payments to lower-income families, are likely to be more damaging to the economy in the short run than tax increases focused on higher-income families. In any case, in terms of how counter-productive they are, there is no automatic preference for spending reductions rather than tax increases."

http://www.cbpp.org/10-30-01sfp.htm
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/phelps2
http://www.bostonreview.net/br21.1/wolff.html
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/simon.html
Myth: The rich get rich because of their merit.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-richmerit.htm
http://firedoglake.com/2009/02/01/newsflash-ronald-reagan-raised-taxes-you-idiots/
 
Mottleydude said:
Bull shit. You're giving one mans opinion vs hard cold across the board data. Massachusetts, as a liberal State, has way higher per capital income than Mississippi and I've just shown irrefutable evidence that more people achieve higher levels of education, across the board, in MA then they do in Mississippi.

Also a house in MA may cost more than a house in MS but the house will be built to a higher standard and quality in MA and though taxes may be higher there's a higher level of public service available, more and better schools, more and better infrastructure, such as roads, water works, airports, hospitals, police services, fire services, etc, etc. So you're claim that per capita income is equalized by cost of living is just completely rediculous as cost of living is directly correlated to a higher quality of living and saying your personal experience negates the cold hard facts is a weak argument.

The cold hard facts are that the more liberal states have a more prosperous and productive economies then the more conservative states. So you're contention is obviously wrong in the face of the facts.
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You haven't presented facts, just opinion. I have lived in Mass, CT, NY and NC and the infrastructure here in NC is better than all those states except Massachusetts. Mass has some better systems but the roads are better here, and by far with respect to traffic congestion.

Also I have a lot of friends who I graduated college with who live in Mass, also my old work colleagues in NY, we all make and make comparable incomes and when I show them pictures of my house they are stunned. The Mass folks all pay three times more per square foot, which of course has a huge impact on what you can afford, plus they pay at least 5% more in State income tax. Upstate NY is about the same square foot costs but I pay about $3400 in property taxes while they pay around $10k or so. That's makes a huge difference on what you can afford, since they are paying about $500-600 per month more just in property tax.

The fact is liberal states have bloated government and social programs that the middle class doesn't need, use or want, yet they have to pay for them, which means that this money isn't available for their own pleasure.
 
Southern Man said:
You haven't presented facts, just opinion. I have lived in Mass, CT, NY and NC and the infrastructure here in NC is better than all those states except Massachusetts. Mass has some better systems but the roads are better here, and by far with respect to traffic congestion.

Also I have a lot of friends who I graduated college with who live in Mass, also my old work colleagues in NY, we all make and make comparable incomes and when I show them pictures of my house they are stunned. The Mass folks all pay three times more per square foot, which of course has a huge impact on what you can afford, plus they pay at least 5% more in State income tax. Upstate NY is about the same square foot costs but I pay about $3400 in property taxes while they pay around $10k or so. That's makes a huge difference on what you can afford, since they are paying about $500-600 per month more just in property tax.

The fact is liberal states have bloated government and social programs that the middle class doesn't need, use or want, yet they have to pay for them, which means that this money isn't available for their own pleasure.
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Oh please. The data I provided was from the Census Beureau. That's hard cold data that disproves your contention. You are only providing anecdotal evidence from your own experience and the hand picked experience of people you know. That is neither reliable nor objective information. The facts are, liberal States are more prosperous and productive then conservative States. There's no room for debate here. You're just simply wrong.
 
Mottleydude said:
Oh please. The data I provided was from the Census Beureau. That's hard cold data that disproves your contention. You are only providing anecdotal evidence from your own experience and the hand picked experience of people you know. That is neither reliable nor objective information. The facts are, liberal States are more prosperous and productive then conservative States. There's no room for debate here. You're just simply wrong.
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Again, that's not true, since companies must pay big bucks to keep employees in states with high cost of living: http://www.missourieconomy.org/images/indicators/cost_of_living/col1q2009_map.jpg

Sort of looks like the election map, don't it? :readit:
 
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