What does freedom mean to you?

Umm the freedom to travel in an auto is one of the most american of freedoms.
Just try taking it away from everyone.

K Damo you are no longer allowed to travel on public roadways....
I could actually live with that. If society were built around such a concept there would be no need for me to travel on a road that was created through imminent domain. Here in my county the roads are rather twisted in places because of the fact the government hasn't exercised imminent domain.

The reality of "pollution" can be curtailed through many different means. I choose to pollute the least possible. I ride my bicycle when I can, my motorcycle when I can, and drive the truck only when it is necessary.
 
I could actually live with that. If society were built around such a concept there would be no need for me to travel on a road that was created through imminent domain. Here in my county the roads are rather twisted in places because of the fact the government hasn't exercised imminent domain.

The reality of "pollution" can be curtailed through many different means. I choose to pollute the least possible. I ride my bicycle when I can, my motorcycle when I can, and drive the truck only when it is necessary.

You are dreaming if you think you are driving on roads that were not built on condemned land....
You actually think that all the landowners eagerly sold their land to the state for the road ? sheesh....
 
You are dreaming if you think you are driving on roads that were not built on condemned land....
You actually think that all the landowners eagerly sold their land to the state for the road ? sheesh....
In my county? Yes, as the county has not used imminent domain. How about your county?

There is a reason it is hard to get 'round in these parts.

Anyway, you are dreaming if you think I said I don't. I said, "I could live with that if society was designed around such a philosophy."

We must be pragmatic. I understand that as well. I will continue to work to build what I think is a free society, you can continue to support the power you wish to exercise over others. I will oppose you.
 
You are dreaming if you think you are driving on roads that were not built on condemned land....
You actually think that all the landowners eagerly sold their land to the state for the road ? sheesh....

If you want to go deeper into the argument uscitizen, you could make a point about how we took over the Indians' land. This is an example at where the freedom line becomes blurry and leaves it up for the people to determine where the line truly is. I believe freedom coincides with common sense. It sucks, but if the government wants to build a highway that lies on your property, it is makes more sense to deter you than 99 % + of the other citizens who would get more convenience out of it. Common sense and freedom work together, I'm not a fan of Eminent domain, but it does make sense in a lot of cases.
 
In my county? Yes, as the county has not used imminent domain. How about your county?

There is a reason it is hard to get 'round in these parts.

Anyway, you are dreaming if you think I said I don't. I said, "I could live with that if society was designed around such a philosophy."

We must be pragmatic. I understand that as well. I will continue to work to build what I think is a free society, you can continue to support the power you wish to exercise over others. I will oppose you.

Glad to see you stay in your county.
we need all Republicans to be that way.
 
If you want to go deeper into the argument uscitizen, you could make a point about how we took over the Indians' land. This is an example at where the freedom line becomes blurry and leaves it up for the people to determine where the line truly is. I believe freedom coincides with common sense. It sucks, but if the government wants to build a highway that lies on your property, it is makes more sense to deter you than 99 % + of the other citizens who would get more convenience out of it. Common sense and freedom work together, I'm not a fan of Eminent domain, but it does make sense in a lot of cases.

ahh no dispute from me on that. However that is not what damo and i were discussing. The topic was freedoms that do not infringe on others.
Of course Damo is trying to muddle the path a bit.
 
ahh no dispute from me on that. However that is not what damo and i were discussing. The topic was freedoms that do not infringe on others.
Of course Damo is trying to muddle the path a bit.
No, I am being very clear. Imminent Domain is not a practice of freedoms, it is an exercise of power.
 
How about the freedom to reep the benifits of your personal labor? Lincon freed the black slaves--but slavery is still alive and well in this country. How can I say that? My accountant says I will be paying 48% of my income in income taxes alone if I don't incoporate and make $100,000 a year. Now with all other taxes included, I might be around the 70% mark of my total earnings. That is more than half of my income, which means I am not really working for myself, I am working for a government and social welfare programs/agendas---for the good for the all--accept me?. That is a parallel to Southern slavery, when the masters made sure the slaves had food, clothing, shelter---and yes--medical care. When--not if--we get socilized medicine--slavery will be at it's highest level this country has ever seen as far as paying the gov over half of your earnings. I am not allowed to reep the benifits of my labor. My American dream---I can only believe if I am asleep.

Now, I have not paid taxes yet this year, because it is my first year totally self employeed. Guys--I have never felt so much freedom in my life, and I swear, I am holding up Michigans economy all by myself (kidding). I wish all of you guys could feel half as free as I do right now---until April 15th. If I decide to tell the IRS to fly a kite, I could probably go at least 3 years without paying income taxes at the level I pay them (and I might have a shot of a retirement, without dying the next year)----they would be the best 3 years of my life--and I am starting to think it would be worth it to--to have the feeling of freedom that I am experiencing right now. I see that we are the slaves that pay for the welfare and hidden agendas. I believe a socialized medicine welfare program will put us over the edge, and lead us into another major depression (which may happen anyway IMO). How many productive people does it take to take care of a welfare recipient, and how many productive people will become welfare recipients when they can't afford the taxes and a home at the same time?

BB---other countries are not the issue (but I am thinking of the South Island of New Zeeland myself). I will not compare our country to any other country when it comes to individual freedoms. if I don't like it here, and the people don't like what is going on---we can change it (back to the way it was)---and we should.

Note, the USA also has the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world by far. I find that very ironic for a "free people" society.

One more time--Change the way we elect our elected officials so we are not forced to elect the elite only--so we can get out of slavery.

We are all owned--weather we realize it or not. Do you really own your home? Just try not paying propety property taxes (which are manditory taxes---income tax is not mandatory). I am not sure how to read you BB. Sometinmes you seem like a liberial to me, and other times, you seem like your feet are firmly planted, and have some sanity.

Here is a nice little read I just found, that only a true American can appreaciate. To bad we don't teach more of this in our public school system.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/rightsof/
 
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Lincon freed the Southern Balck slaves--but slavery is alive and well in this country. My accountant says, if I make 100,000/year, with out incorporating, I will be paying 48% of my money in income taxes alone (single white male--with no kids). Now, lets add all the other taxes I pay (property, sales, gas, blah blah), and I will be around the 70% mark. That means, I am not working for myself, but I am working for our government. It is quite a parallel to the Southern slavery days, where the masters of the plantations made sure their slaves had food, clothing, shelter---and yes medical care. I fear we are heading not only toward a resession (like the news is finally starting to pick up on), but a full blown depression. I fear a socialized medicine welfare program will be enough to quickly push us over the edge---and poverty will soar. More social programs, taxing a diminishing productive people, at times of bad economy for the people that exists now---will do us in IMO.

It all comes back to being forced to elect only the elite, who really don't care about any class below them, as a whole.

I am in my first year of being totally self employed, and I have not paid taxes yet. Guys and gals, I wish you could feel the freedom that I feel right now. It is so awesome, and I have never had decient cash in my pocket before. I even helped out this older mexican guy in my local area, that is in a wheel chair, and digging in the trash for ten cent cans. He did not ask me for welfare, when I saw him digging--so I gladly gave him all of my cans, and continue to do so while I can. When is the last time any libs here directly helped out their neighbor like that?

Here is a little write I just found---that we seem to have forgotten.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/rightsof/

I wish they taught this more in our public school system. My mother immigrated here from Canada. She had a work visa and green card, and worked here for 5 years before she could become a citizen. She is a retired dietitian now, and was degreed in Canada. She thought she was going to have this big test on American history--but the guy signing her citizen papers had a daughter in the dietary industry--and that is all they talked about. Boom--your a citizen.

We also have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world by far. I think that is a tiny bit ironic for a nation that boasts it's freedom for the people.
 
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The "War on Drugs" has its casualties.

Ahhh yes---the victimless crime. The war that is not designed, or possible to be winable--just expensive. Most of those people would not hurt a fly, and are not allowed to be productive, as employeers ask you to sign away your constitutional rights---just to work for them, and give them a shot of wealth. To the best of my knowledge, there is pretty much only one other way our constitutional rights can be stripped from us. That is when you are arrested, and are a "ward of the state". Employment and prisioners are becoming related. There have been many a politician that made money by importing illegal drugs. But, we would not want to stop the war on drugs, because we have many many federal employees (non productive employees, whos wages are paid by tax payer money) that would lose their jobs--and that would be bad for the economy. Right? Losing our jobs though--does not seem to be an issue to the elite who own us.
 
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