What happened to America's auto industry?

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Will the last person to leave Detroit please turn out the lights?

"Census data on Tuesday showed that Detroit’s population had plunged by 25 percent over the last decade. It was dramatic testimony to the crumbling industrial base of the Midwest"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23detroit.html?_r=1

http://www.census.gov/regions/detroit/

Mayor Bing has been reduced to begging for a recount in hopes of qualifying for state and federal aid.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/detroits-mayor-bing-challenge-census-figures/story?id=13203061

Once the dynamic hub of a thriving industrial nation, Detroit is now a crumbling slum.

What happened?

picture-12.png
 
Unions mostly. Not that the picture they paint of Detroit is anywhere close to accurate. It's also unfair to say that this happened to Americas auto industry, because it's still in America. It's located in the south where the UAW doesn't have as much control.
 
Epic Win said:
Will the last person to leave Detroit please turn out the lights?

"Census data on Tuesday showed that Detroit’s population had plunged by 25 percent over the last decade. It was dramatic testimony to the crumbling industrial base of the Midwest"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23detroit.html?_r=1

http://www.census.gov/regions/detroit/

Mayor Bing has been reduced to begging for a recount in hopes of qualifying for state and federal aid.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/detroits-mayor-bing-challenge-census-figures/story?id=13203061

Once the dynamic hub of a thriving industrial nation, Detroit is now a crumbling slum.

What happened?

picture-12.png
Click to expand...

I don't know. My classic 50's Pontiac is still on the road. The good, old 6-cylinder stove bolt cranks out a whooping 115 HP! 0 - 60 in just under 2.6 minutes!. :)
 
apple0154 said:
I don't know. My classic 50's Pontiac is still on the road. The good, old 6-cylinder stove bolt cranks out a whooping 115 HP! 0 - 60 in just under 2.6 minutes!. :)
Click to expand...

How is this relevant? You seem to be making light of a heartbreaking situation. America's industrial heartland is in ruins, and you make jokes?
 
Epic Win said:
How is this relevant? You seem to be making light of a heartbreaking situation. America's industrial heartland is in ruins, and you make jokes?
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd lighten things up. Besides, it shows GM did and does make good cars. Both the Mrs. and I own GM products.
 
There were many factors obviously but the death knell was Bush II canceling the CAFE increases the Clintons had set to take effect. This lulled Detroit and it's greedy, shortsighted patricians into a false sense of wellbeing, but worse than that, delayed development of electric cars for long enough for U.S. companies to miss the market demand.

The total bullshit from the right or whereever, that the unions were responsible it just too fucking funny. Did the unions decide to make Hummers? Did the unions force G.M. to buy Saab or launch Saturn, or cancel Oldsmobile and Pontiac, and EV1? Did the unions have a hand in glorious mismanagement, in CEO and other executive overcompensation, in becoming a financial rather than a manufacturing companie? Did the unions direct management to ignore customer service complaints, to ignore industry talk about japanese quality?

Don't tell me about overpaid union workers, while the best cars in the world are made in Europe, by the highest paid employees and Japan and China just wish they could compete. Go screw yourselves Neo-con appologists.

That stupid fucker wrecked this place and you ignorant shitpiles are still making excuses for him.
 
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Epic Win said:
How is this relevant? You seem to be making light of a heartbreaking situation. America's industrial heartland is in ruins, and you make jokes?
Click to expand...

It's relevant because the car is over fifty years old and still runs. Think, then type.
 
Holden Caulfield said:
There were many factors obviously but the death knell was Bush II canceling the CAFE increases the Clintons had set to take effect. This lulled Detroit and it's greedy, shortsighted patricians into a false sense of wellbeing, but worse than that, delayed development of electric cars for long enough for U.S. companies to miss the market demand.

The total bullshit from the right or whereever, that the unions were responsible it just too fucking funny. Did the unions decide to make Hummers? Did the unions force G.M. to buy Saab or launch Saturn, or cancel Oldsmobile and Pontiac, and EV1? Did the unions have a hand in glorious mismanagement, in CEO and other executive overcompensation, in becoming a financial rather than a manufacturing companie? Did the unions direct management to ignore customer service complaints, to ignore industry talk about japanese quality?

Don't tell me about overpaid union workers, while the best cars in the world are made in Europe, by the highest paid employees and Japan and China just wish they could compete. Go screw yourselves Neo-con appologists.

That stupid fucker wrecked this place and you ignorant shitpiles are still making excuses for him.
Click to expand...

Of course, everything under the sun in the known universe which is bad, is the fault of George W. Bush. We need look no further! Well, I for one, will no longer make excuses for him! I promise to never again vote for George W. Bush for any elected office! Now that we've settled that, maybe we can have an adult conversation about the actual TOPIC of the thread, in an honest and objective way?

The American auto industry has been floundering for decades... do you not remember Chrysler going bankrupt, and Lee Iaccoca rebuilding the company back in the 80s? George W. Bush was on a cocaine binge and AWOL from the guard when American auto execs decided to build behemoth gas-guzzlers instead of more fuel efficient vehicles like the Japanese, back in the late 60s, how could he have possibly influenced that? Then there is the nature of the product and how it was marketed and produced... Auto execs will admit, back in the 60s, cars were made to last 100k miles... they intended you to trade them in on newer models often. The engineering and such, was not targeted at making a high quality machine, but rather, something that would last a few years, so you would have to buy another. Meanwhile, the Japanese (and European) strategy, was to make a car that was designed to last. A completely different objective and market strategy, and this caused a decline in American automotive purchases, while imports became increasingly more popular. Even with tariffs and restrictions, the imports still compete strongly, and have forced American auto makers to rethink their strategy. In recent years, American auto quality has improved, but the perceptional damage is done, it will take years to restore faith with the consumer.

An earlier point was made about the auto industry in the South, this is another factor of economics and business. Why is Detroit a ghost town, but West Point, Georgia just added 1,500 new jobs? Americans are still building cars.... they are just building Kias, Hyundais, Toyotas, BMWs, and Mercedes, and in the South, where there is less labor union influence.
 
Holden Caulfield said:
There were many factors obviously but the death knell was Bush II canceling the CAFE increases the Clintons had set to take effect. This lulled Detroit and it's greedy, shortsighted patricians into a false sense of wellbeing, but worse than that, delayed development of electric cars for long enough for U.S. companies to miss the market demand.

The total bullshit from the right or whereever, that the unions were responsible it just too fucking funny. Did the unions decide to make Hummers? Did the unions force G.M. to buy Saab or launch Saturn, or cancel Oldsmobile and Pontiac, and EV1? Did the unions have a hand in glorious mismanagement, in CEO and other executive overcompensation, in becoming a financial rather than a manufacturing companie? Did the unions direct management to ignore customer service complaints, to ignore industry talk about japanese quality?

Don't tell me about overpaid union workers, while the best cars in the world are made in Europe, by the highest paid employees and Japan and China just wish they could compete. Go screw yourselves Neo-con appologists.

That stupid fucker wrecked this place and you ignorant shitpiles are still making excuses for him.
Click to expand...

so its all bush's fault....good lord, you have serious gwbocd
 
King of Proles said:
Unions mostly. Not that the picture they paint of Detroit is anywhere close to accurate. It's also unfair to say that this happened to Americas auto industry, because it's still in America. It's located in the south where the UAW doesn't have as much control.
Click to expand...

Oh like hell. Ya'll believe about any political rhetoric that's thrown your way and ya'll believe it. In 2004 US Companies produced nearly 14 million vehicles. In 2009 they produced nearly 12 million vehicles. Unions impact on auto production has had about as much impact as outsourcing. These are substantial increases in automotive manufacturing in the US over what was produced in the 70 or 80's. So why has the labor market that supported millions of peoples working in the automotive industry declined so substantially and which is also the major cause of decline for employment in the industrialized midwest? AUTOMATION!

Superior manufacturing methods, such as JIT and superior manufacturing methods involving automation and robotics has substantially reduced the volume of labor required to manufacture an automobile. in 1970 a Detroit assembly plant required a small army of welders to assemble the frame of a car, now that is done almost entirely by robots. Like wise with parts production. Armies of skilled machinist were needed to make the parts required to produce autos. Now the vast majority of those parts are made by automated CNC machines where one programer/machinist can make more parts in a day then 20 machinist could do in a month in 1970.

Another example. It took nearly 50 integrated steel plants in 1950 to produce the quantity of iron that one modern blast furnace on the south shore of lake Michigan produces today. Why so few plants and a fraction of the labor today? Superior technology and automation. A few thousand workers can now produce more steel then what used to take 100,000 workers and more steel in being made now in the US then was made in the 50's, 60's or 70's!

So trying to lay the blame on the decline of manufacturing jobs in the industrial midwest on unions shows an almost complete ignorance of what has actually happened. So you want to blame the real culprits for the decline of jobs in heavy industry in the midwest? Blame our engineers and their production genius.
 
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Epic Win said:
How is this relevant? You seem to be making light of a heartbreaking situation. America's industrial heartland is in ruins, and you make jokes?
Click to expand...

You don't know what you're talking about. Our Heavy industry has been set back due to the impact of the recesion and it well on it's way to climbing back to pre 2007 levels. The big problem in the industrial midwest is that modern factories no longer need a zillion employees to manufacture their products. This has left large numbers on unskilled workers unemployed. If you think our industrial base is in shambles then my guess is not only do you not know anything about manufacturing you have probably never ever worked in a factory and probably have never been in one, at least a modern one. The volume of goods manufactured in our nation still exceeds that of any other nation on the planet. We just aint making low margin products like bicycles and washing machines. The fact is, a modern factory can produce it's goods with about 1/10 of the labor that was required in 1980.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You don't know what you're talking about. Our Heavy industry has been set back due to the impact of the recesion and it well on it's way to climbing back to pre 2007 levels. The big problem in the industrial midwest is that modern factories no longer need a zillion employees to manufacture their products. This has left large numbers on unskilled workers unemployed. If you think our industrial base is in shambles then my guess is not only do you not know anything about manufacturing you have probably never ever worked in a factory and probably have never been in one, at least a modern one. The volume of goods manufactured in our nation still exceeds that of any other nation on the planet. We just aint making low margin products like bicycles and washing machines. The fact is, a modern factory can produce it's goods with about 1/10 of the labor that was required in 1980.
Click to expand...

So the layoffs, blight, and devastation in Detroit aren't a problem for you?
 
Dixie said:
Of course, everything under the sun in the known universe which is bad, is the fault of George W. Bush. We need look no further! Well, I for one, will no longer make excuses for him! I promise to never again vote for George W. Bush for any elected office! Now that we've settled that, maybe we can have an adult conversation about the actual TOPIC of the thread, in an honest and objective way?

The American auto industry has been floundering for decades... do you not remember Chrysler going bankrupt, and Lee Iaccoca rebuilding the company back in the 80s? George W. Bush was on a cocaine binge and AWOL from the guard when American auto execs decided to build behemoth gas-guzzlers instead of more fuel efficient vehicles like the Japanese, back in the late 60s, how could he have possibly influenced that? Then there is the nature of the product and how it was marketed and produced... Auto execs will admit, back in the 60s, cars were made to last 100k miles... they intended you to trade them in on newer models often. The engineering and such, was not targeted at making a high quality machine, but rather, something that would last a few years, so you would have to buy another. Meanwhile, the Japanese (and European) strategy, was to make a car that was designed to last. A completely different objective and market strategy, and this caused a decline in American automotive purchases, while imports became increasingly more popular. Even with tariffs and restrictions, the imports still compete strongly, and have forced American auto makers to rethink their strategy. In recent years, American auto quality has improved, but the perceptional damage is done, it will take years to restore faith with the consumer.

An earlier point was made about the auto industry in the South, this is another factor of economics and business. Why is Detroit a ghost town, but West Point, Georgia just added 1,500 new jobs? Americans are still building cars.... they are just building Kias, Hyundais, Toyotas, BMWs, and Mercedes, and in the South, where there is less labor union influence.
Click to expand...
Oh Dixie you don't know what you're talking about. How can you say that the US auto industry has been floundering for decades when we led world production in autos for most of the last decade? In 2003 and 2004 the US produced more autos domestically then any nation on the planet and world wide GM and Ford produce more cars and light trucks then any other company in the world. In 2008 Michigan produce more cars then Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina and Mississippi combined. In fact Ohio produced more cars in 2008 then all those southern States combined and the over whelming majority of those factories in Michgan and Ohio are Union shops. Alabama is the leading state in the south in Auto manufacturing and you produce less then half the cars and light trucks combined that Ohio does.

The real problem in the domestic US auto market is that the bottom dropped out of the light truck market due to rising gas prices combined with the affects of the recession.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...8_fotw539.html
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh Dixie you don't know what you're talking about. How can you say that the US auto industry has been floundering for decades when we led world production in autos for most of the last decade? In 2003 and 2004 the US produced more autos domestically then any nation on the planet and world wide GM and Ford produce more cars and light trucks then any other company in the world. In 2008 Michigan produce more cars then Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina and Mississippi combined. In fact Ohio produced more cars in 2008 then all those southern States combined and the over whelming majority of those factories in Michgan and Ohio are Union shops. Alabama is the leading state in the south in Auto manufacturing and you produce less then half the cars and light trucks combined that Ohio does.

The real problem in the domestic US auto market is that the bottom dropped out of the light truck market due to rising gas prices combined with the affects of the recession.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...8_fotw539.html
Click to expand...


Hey smart ass, how many auto manufacturing jobs has Michigan and Ohio added in the past decade, and how many has Alabama added? Come on now... I know you have the answer to that question, right???
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Blah blah blah AUTOMATION!

blah blah blah
Click to expand...
Yes, autmation had a significant role in production. But basically the UAW DEMANDED maintaining the same benefits/wages that they had prior to being useless. In effect this made them unable to compete. Plus Detriot has notoriously high taxes to pay for it's social entitlement programs. This has driven businesses out of MI. And the new smoking laws certainly don't help. Overall Detroit represents the ultimate failure of the lefts policies.
 
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