What happened to America's auto industry?

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So the layoffs, blight, and devastation in Detroit aren't a problem for you?

Did you read Mott's post? Are you saying that you would prefer that the manufacturers get rid of the automation and go back to requiring huge numbers of inefficient workers?

Remember back in high school when the guidance counsellors were telling you to get an education so you can have a good career? Those who relied on assembly line jobs should have listened. The people who designed the automation certainly did.
 
Of course, everything under the sun in the known universe which is bad, is the fault of George W. Bush. We need look no further! Well, I for one, will no longer make excuses for him! I promise to never again vote for George W. Bush for any elected office! Now that we've settled that, maybe we can have an adult conversation about the actual TOPIC of the thread, in an honest and objective way?

The American auto industry has been floundering for decades... do you not remember Chrysler going bankrupt, and Lee Iaccoca rebuilding the company back in the 80s? George W. Bush was on a cocaine binge and AWOL from the guard when American auto execs decided to build behemoth gas-guzzlers instead of more fuel efficient vehicles like the Japanese, back in the late 60s, how could he have possibly influenced that? Then there is the nature of the product and how it was marketed and produced... Auto execs will admit, back in the 60s, cars were made to last 100k miles... they intended you to trade them in on newer models often. The engineering and such, was not targeted at making a high quality machine, but rather, something that would last a few years, so you would have to buy another. Meanwhile, the Japanese (and European) strategy, was to make a car that was designed to last. A completely different objective and market strategy, and this caused a decline in American automotive purchases, while imports became increasingly more popular. Even with tariffs and restrictions, the imports still compete strongly, and have forced American auto makers to rethink their strategy. In recent years, American auto quality has improved, but the perceptional damage is done, it will take years to restore faith with the consumer.

An earlier point was made about the auto industry in the South, this is another factor of economics and business. Why is Detroit a ghost town, but West Point, Georgia just added 1,500 new jobs? Americans are still building cars.... they are just building Kias, Hyundais, Toyotas, BMWs, and Mercedes, and in the South, where there is less labor union influence.

Thank god you are finaly ready to stop making excuses, but he still wrecked the place.
 
Yes, autmation had a significant role in production. But basically the UAW DEMANDED maintaining the same benefits/wages that they had prior to being useless. In effect this made them unable to compete. Plus Detriot has notoriously high taxes to pay for it's social entitlement programs. This has driven businesses out of MI. And the new smoking laws certainly don't help. Overall Detroit represents the ultimate failure of the lefts policies.
Dude, that is so fucking lame. How could an industry that sold 12 million vehicles in 2004 not be competitive? The problem with US auto industry right now is there's little demand for gas guzzling SUV's and light trucks and the US industry has had to switch models, design and production to where the demand is, cars!
 
Did you read Mott's post? Are you saying that you would prefer that the manufacturers get rid of the automation and go back to requiring huge numbers of inefficient workers?

Remember back in high school when the guidance counsellors were telling you to get an education so you can have a good career? Those who relied on assembly line jobs should have listened. The people who designed the automation certainly did.
Exactly and that's the solution to the problem. We went through a wave of this in the late 70 and early 80's and it was education and skills training that made the difference. Ohio and michigan and the other great lake states were hit hard by the recession and many of those jobs aren't coming back so the best bet is to invest in education cause the best way to attract employers is to have the best and most skilled talent available. (oh....btw....that's why Ohio kicks michigans ass every year....we do a better job of that! ;-)
 
Hey smart ass, how many auto manufacturing jobs has Michigan and Ohio added in the past decade, and how many has Alabama added? Come on now... I know you have the answer to that question, right???
I can't answer that question as I don't know. I do know that we still produce more then all the southern states combined.
 
I can't answer that question as I don't know. I do know that we still produce more then all the southern states combined.

Well I can tell you that Michigan and Ohio have added ZERO new jobs, because they've LOST massive numbers of jobs over the past decade. Meanwhile, Alabama has added over 30,000 new jobs in the auto industry. Now Mott, this thread wasn't some dick-wagging braggadocio about who has the better car production state. If it were, you'd win hands down, Michigan and Ohio have Alabama beat there... but if we are talking about the topic of the thread, and discussing what happened to America's auto industry, I think my point is very well made. The jobs are leaving your state by the thousands, Detroit looks like one of those cities you see in Life After People... but down here in Alabama, we now have SIX auto assembly plants with two more on the way, thousands of new jobs... dozens of support industry jobs... and this is quickly becoming our leading industry. Do cars just like to be built in Alabama better? Are Alabamians better at building cars than Ohioans? Does the company get smarter about making profits if they live in Alabama and drink the water here? Why all of a sudden, are the jobs leaving Ohio and Michigan, and coming to Alabama?
 
Did you read Mott's post? Are you saying that you would prefer that the manufacturers get rid of the automation and go back to requiring huge numbers of inefficient workers?

Remember back in high school when the guidance counsellors were telling you to get an education so you can have a good career? Those who relied on assembly line jobs should have listened. The people who designed the automation certainly did.

Did you read my post?

Please, do cite where I said any of the things you attributed to me. :confused:
 
Did you read my post?

Please, do cite where I said any of the things you attributed to me. :confused:

Why did you ask Mott "So the layoffs, blight, and devastation in Detroit aren't a problem for you?"? Mott was not saying anything positive about the troubles in detroit. He simply gave a very good explanation of how it happened and why.

If you are not in favor of returning to pre-automation days, why ask Mott such an insulting question?
 
How have I ignored reality?

What "shit" did I "make up"?

While you're at it, what are my political views?

The answer to all 3 is...you don't know, do you?


Lighten up, Francis. You posed a question in an insulting manner, and then get pissy when you are called on it?

No one on these forums has said the blight in Detroit is a good thing. But the automation in auto manufacturing is certainly a good thing.

If you want to discuss the issue, feel free. If someone misinterprets your points, clarify them rather than throwing a hissy ft.
 
Well I can tell you that Michigan and Ohio have added ZERO new jobs, because they've LOST massive numbers of jobs over the past decade. Meanwhile, Alabama has added over 30,000 new jobs in the auto industry. Now Mott, this thread wasn't some dick-wagging braggadocio about who has the better car production state. If it were, you'd win hands down, Michigan and Ohio have Alabama beat there... but if we are talking about the topic of the thread, and discussing what happened to America's auto industry, I think my point is very well made. The jobs are leaving your state by the thousands, Detroit looks like one of those cities you see in Life After People... but down here in Alabama, we now have SIX auto assembly plants with two more on the way, thousands of new jobs... dozens of support industry jobs... and this is quickly becoming our leading industry. Do cars just like to be built in Alabama better? Are Alabamians better at building cars than Ohioans? Does the company get smarter about making profits if they live in Alabama and drink the water here? Why all of a sudden, are the jobs leaving Ohio and Michigan, and coming to Alabama?
But so has the rest of the nation and Ohio and Michigan have disproportionately more manufacturing jobs then the rest of the nation and thus are more likely to be adversly impacted. Alabama has certainly been a bright spot and has seen growth at a modet 2% but in the grand scheme of things, considering the differences in the economy of scale, that's chicken feed. It should also be noted that none of that growth in Alabama auto manufacturing has been with American companies.

Look Dixie, we've seen this here in Ohio and michigan before. In the two previous recessions large numbers of manufacturing jobs have went away and did not come back. In 1978 34% of all jobs in Ohio were in the manufacturing sector by 2004 only 14% of the Jobs in Ohio are in the manufacturing sector which is still disproportionately more then the rest of the nation which is around 10% (9% for Alabama). The two biggest factors that have impacted Ohio manufacturing jobs have been leaner manufacturing practices and trade agreements which have outsourced jobs to other nations. We could, in theory, get rid of the trade agreements but that probably wouldn't bring back those manufacturing jobs.

Look, you can play politics all you want to witht his but the truth is that the solution to the problem for displaced workers in the midwest is education. We have nearly 200,000 jobs here in Ohio (over 5 million nation wide) that are not being filled due to lack of qualified workers.
 
Why not ask a man who knows the industry better than anyone?

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Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.

Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.

Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.

I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.

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http://www.leeiacocca.net/thoughts-on-leadership/health-care.aspx
 
Yes, they are a problem for me but to solve those problems you can't ignore reality and make shit up cause it fits your political views. You aint solving any problems that way.

How have I ignored reality?

What "shit" did I "make up"?

While you're at it, what are my political views?

The answer to all 3 is...you don't know, do you?
 
The relevance of the 50-year old Pontiac still hasn't been explained, has it?

I thought you moved past your Booyah phase Epic Fail. Why are you acting retarded again?

The old pontiac is a symbol of what has always existed, Detroit automotive quality. The demise of Detroit is not due to a lack of quality, an exscuse often offered up by douchebags such as Yurt, to justify sending money out of this country instead of supporting their homeboys.
 
shitty cars and GED's making 90,000 to screw parts in did Detroit in.

"As The Economist recently noted, “the car industry can produce 94 million cars a year against global demand of 64 million.” That’s lots of spare capacity with much of it in the wrong places – meaning not in China, India or Brazil.

If you’re thinking of following Wall Street’s advice and buying GM at $33, please consider this recent observation from Warren Buffett.

“The single most important decision in evaluating a business is pricing power.”, he said. “If you’ve got the power to raise prices without losing business to a competitor, you’ve got a very good business. And if you have to have a prayer session before raising the price by ten percent, then you’ve got a terrible business.”

With GM’s U.S. market share now down below 19%, you can be sure there is a non-stop prayer session at the Renaissance Center in Detroit."

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/02/28/mean-street-why-the-new-gm-is-destined-to-lose/

"Developments in China are likely to make things worse still for rich-world companies. China too has a surplus of car manufacturers, excess capacity and a problem with demand. Annual sales growth is forecast to fall from 30% to around 10% from this year as other parts of the country follow Beijing’s move to restrict the number of cars in the city. That should squeeze the domestic market further, hurt Western firms selling into China (including the luxury brands enjoying a boom, see article) and encourage Chinese manufacturers to look abroad. Some are already selling cars successfully around Asia and the Middle East. One of them, Geely, has bought Sweden’s Volvo, a brand with a small but faithful customer base in America. Provided it manages its acquisition well, Geely could use the Volvo brand to grow in America. The Chinese government would like to see the joint ventures it has set up with the likes of GM and Volkswagen (VW) start exporting. Eventually, Chinese cars will flood into American and European markets."

http://www.economist.com/node/17902719?story_id=17902719&fsrc=nlw|hig|01-13-2011|editors_highlights
 
I wouldn't touch GM (government motors) with a ten foot pole.

Wall Street is not main street and the American people are stakeholders in our economy, not shareholders.

Your knowledge of economics could fit on the head of a pin.
 
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