What really happened in between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia in 2008?

Scott

Verified User
In another thread, PostModernProphet and I started to converse about the brief Russian intervention in a conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia. Thought it deserved a thread of its own, so I found an article that I think is fairly balanced, in that it presents both the western version (clipped as it may be) -and- the Russian versions of the story. Quoting a bit of it below...

**
Ten years ago Western audiences learned about breaking news. Russia was doing it again – attacking its weaker neighbor Georgia with tanks and warplanes. Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili was giving exclusive interviews right and left, explaining how his country was being attacked because it wants freedom and how the battle was for values, nothing less. Anchors reminded viewers that Georgia provided troops to missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and wanted to be part of NATO.


On the same day Russian audiences learned that Saakashvili went on his latest military adventures, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the rebellious city of Tskhinval. Russian peacekeepers stationed there had been killed. President Dmitry Medvedev, visiting the Olympic Games in Beijing, ordered a military response to enforce peace in South Ossetia.

The schism of realities was palpable to those who got their news from sources on both sides. The current expression “fake news” would have been flying around, for sure.

The 10th anniversary of the dramatic five-day war in Georgia comes with a new string of reports. “Ethnic Georgians and Ossetians had lived together peacefully throughout the 20th century,” says NBC News, citing a Georgian expert.


[snip]

History of ethnic divisions

When Georgia regained its independence from a crumbling Soviet Union, it came with the baggage of bitter ethnic rivalries. Georgian nationalists, who were the driving force behind the secession, made little effort to defuse tensions, declaring that their independent state will be for Georgians first and foremost.

Two parts of Georgia did not take this ‘promise’ well. One was Abkhazia, an area in the northwest stretching along the Black Sea and bordering Russia’s Krasnodar region. By the 1990s, ethnic Abkhazians and Georgians were roughly equal in numbers there, and Abkhazians feared forced assimilation under the new government. The second was South Ossetia, a mostly mountainous region in the north, connected with Russia’s Ossetia by a single road under the Caucasus Mountains’ main ridge.

Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia had bad experiences with an independent Georgia in the early 20th century, when the collapse of the Russian empire festered in all kinds of separatism and nationalism at its outskirts. Both were made part of Soviet Georgia on provision of significant autonomy. Both were denied their wish to leave Georgia and remain part of Soviet Union in 1991, as Georgian President Zviad Gamsakhurdia rose to power.


[snip]

The armed conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia saw hundreds killed, tens of thousands displaced and the land devastated economically. In each area, internationally-approved ceasefire regimes were eventually established, with Russian peacekeepers serving as guarantors of peace.

So, claiming there was mostly ethnic peace in Georgia is misleading at best.


[snip]

Georgia under Saakashvili became a showcase for what a Western-educated leader can achieve in a post-Soviet nation. His anti-corruption reforms, which managed to eradicate low-level graft, and massive infrastructure investments were given a positive spin by the media. His troops were offered training and equipment by allies and an honorary place to serve alongside NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. George W. Bush called Georgia a beacon of liberty during his visit to Tbilisi.

The beacon’s darker aspects were not given much attention. The brutal suppression of mass protests in 2007 – which Saakashvili called an attempted coup sponsored by Russia– were barely accorded a second glance by the Western media. The harsh penal system was deemed by foreign sponsors as a necessity, to purge endemic corruption and organized crime, even as rights groups reported torture was common in Georgian prisons. And, of course, Georgian militarism was not considered as something bad.


[snip]

Five days in August

Bringing Abkhazia and South Ossetia back under control was always a declared goal of the Saakashvili government. In August 2008 he made his bid, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the South Ossetian capital Tskhinval. Brigadier General Mamuka Kurashvili, who commanded a Georgian peacekeeper mission in South Ossetia –kept there alongside the Russians and the Ossetians– didn’t hide that bringing the breakaway region to heel was the goal. Later, Tbilisi disavowed his statement and claimed the troops were preempting a Russian invasion of Georgia.
**

Full article:
10 years since Georgia attacked South Ossetia and Russia – not the other way around | rt.com

An independent documentary film was also made on the 5 day war. An article was written about it below, with a link to the video itself within said article:

Documentary on the war between Georgia and South Ossetia - Tears of Ossetia | Donbass Insider
 
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In another thread, PostModernProphet and I started to converse about the brief Russian intervention in a conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia. Thought it deserved a thread of its own, so I found an article that I think is fairly balanced, in that it presents both the western version (clipped as it may be) -and- the Russian versions of the story. Quoting a bit of it below...

**
Ten years ago Western audiences learned about breaking news. Russia was doing it again – attacking its weaker neighbor Georgia with tanks and warplanes. Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili was giving exclusive interviews right and left, explaining how his country was being attacked because it wants freedom and how the battle was for values, nothing less. Anchors reminded viewers that Georgia provided troops to missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and wanted to be part of NATO.


On the same day Russian audiences learned that Saakashvili went on his latest military adventures, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the rebellious city of Tskhinval. Russian peacekeepers stationed there had been killed. President Dmitry Medvedev, visiting the Olympic Games in Beijing, ordered a military response to enforce peace in South Ossetia.

The schism of realities was palpable to those who got their news from sources on both sides. The current expression “fake news” would have been flying around, for sure.

The 10th anniversary of the dramatic five-day war in Georgia comes with a new string of reports. “Ethnic Georgians and Ossetians had lived together peacefully throughout the 20th century,” says NBC News, citing a Georgian expert.


[snip]

History of ethnic divisions

When Georgia regained its independence from a crumbling Soviet Union, it came with the baggage of bitter ethnic rivalries. Georgian nationalists, who were the driving force behind the secession, made little effort to defuse tensions, declaring that their independent state will be for Georgians first and foremost.

Two parts of Georgia did not take this ‘promise’ well. One was Abkhazia, an area in the northwest stretching along the Black Sea and bordering Russia’s Krasnodar region. By the 1990s, ethnic Abkhazians and Georgians were roughly equal in numbers there, and Abkhazians feared forced assimilation under the new government. The second was South Ossetia, a mostly mountainous region in the north, connected with Russia’s Ossetia by a single road under the Caucasus Mountains’ main ridge.

Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia had bad experiences with an independent Georgia in the early 20th century, when the collapse of the Russian empire festered in all kinds of separatism and nationalism at its outskirts. Both were made part of Soviet Georgia on provision of significant autonomy. Both were denied their wish to leave Georgia and remain part of Soviet Union in 1991, as Georgian President Zviad Gamsakhurdia rose to power.


[snip]

The armed conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia saw hundreds killed, tens of thousands displaced and the land devastated economically. In each area, internationally-approved ceasefire regimes were eventually established, with Russian peacekeepers serving as guarantors of peace.

So, claiming there was mostly ethnic peace in Georgia is misleading at best.


[snip]

Georgia under Saakashvili became a showcase for what a Western-educated leader can achieve in a post-Soviet nation. His anti-corruption reforms, which managed to eradicate low-level graft, and massive infrastructure investments were given a positive spin by the media. His troops were offered training and equipment by allies and an honorary place to serve alongside NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. George W. Bush called Georgia a beacon of liberty during his visit to Tbilisi.

The beacon’s darker aspects were not given much attention. The brutal suppression of mass protests in 2007 – which Saakashvili called an attempted coup sponsored by Russia– were barely accorded a second glance by the Western media. The harsh penal system was deemed by foreign sponsors as a necessity, to purge endemic corruption and organized crime, even as rights groups reported torture was common in Georgian prisons. And, of course, Georgian militarism was not considered as something bad.


[snip]

Five days in August

Bringing Abkhazia and South Ossetia back under control was always a declared goal of the Saakashvili government. In August 2008 he made his bid, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the South Ossetian capital Tskhinval. Brigadier General Mamuka Kurashvili, who commanded a Georgian peacekeeper mission in South Ossetia –kept there alongside the Russians and the Ossetians– didn’t hide that bringing the breakaway region to heel was the goal. Later, Tbilisi disavowed his statement and claimed the troops were preempting a Russian invasion of Georgia.
**

Full article:
10 years since Georgia attacked South Ossetia and Russia – not the other way around | rt.com

An independent documentary film was also made on the 5 day war. An article was written about it below, with a link to the video itself within said article:

Documentary on the war between Georgia and South Ossetia - Tears of Ossetia | Donbass Insider

to make you happy, I quoted your whole post......but the truth is, your post is not truth.......Putin's aggression caused both invasions.....
 
to make you happy, I quoted your whole post......

That made me chuckle a bit :-p.

but the truth is, your post is not truth.......Putin's aggression caused both invasions.....

I certainly acknowledge that that's what the western mainstream media would have you believe. rt.com made that clear by linking to a CNN video and some western mainstream media articles. What I like about the rt.com article is it -also- details a very different version of events, one from the perspective of the Russian media.

So here's a question for you- how are you so sure that the western mainstream media's version is right?
 
In another thread, PostModernProphet and I started to converse about the brief Russian intervention in a conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia. Thought it deserved a thread of its own, so I found an article that I think is fairly balanced, in that it presents both the western version (clipped as it may be) -and- the Russian versions of the story. Quoting a bit of it below...

**
Ten years ago Western audiences learned about breaking news. Russia was doing it again – attacking its weaker neighbor Georgia with tanks and warplanes. Georgia’s President Mikhail Saakashvili was giving exclusive interviews right and left, explaining how his country was being attacked because it wants freedom and how the battle was for values, nothing less. Anchors reminded viewers that Georgia provided troops to missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and wanted to be part of NATO.


On the same day Russian audiences learned that Saakashvili went on his latest military adventures, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the rebellious city of Tskhinval. Russian peacekeepers stationed there had been killed. President Dmitry Medvedev, visiting the Olympic Games in Beijing, ordered a military response to enforce peace in South Ossetia.

The schism of realities was palpable to those who got their news from sources on both sides. The current expression “fake news” would have been flying around, for sure.

The 10th anniversary of the dramatic five-day war in Georgia comes with a new string of reports. “Ethnic Georgians and Ossetians had lived together peacefully throughout the 20th century,” says NBC News, citing a Georgian expert.


[snip]

History of ethnic divisions

When Georgia regained its independence from a crumbling Soviet Union, it came with the baggage of bitter ethnic rivalries. Georgian nationalists, who were the driving force behind the secession, made little effort to defuse tensions, declaring that their independent state will be for Georgians first and foremost.

Two parts of Georgia did not take this ‘promise’ well. One was Abkhazia, an area in the northwest stretching along the Black Sea and bordering Russia’s Krasnodar region. By the 1990s, ethnic Abkhazians and Georgians were roughly equal in numbers there, and Abkhazians feared forced assimilation under the new government. The second was South Ossetia, a mostly mountainous region in the north, connected with Russia’s Ossetia by a single road under the Caucasus Mountains’ main ridge.

Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia had bad experiences with an independent Georgia in the early 20th century, when the collapse of the Russian empire festered in all kinds of separatism and nationalism at its outskirts. Both were made part of Soviet Georgia on provision of significant autonomy. Both were denied their wish to leave Georgia and remain part of Soviet Union in 1991, as Georgian President Zviad Gamsakhurdia rose to power.


[snip]

The armed conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia saw hundreds killed, tens of thousands displaced and the land devastated economically. In each area, internationally-approved ceasefire regimes were eventually established, with Russian peacekeepers serving as guarantors of peace.

So, claiming there was mostly ethnic peace in Georgia is misleading at best.


[snip]

Georgia under Saakashvili became a showcase for what a Western-educated leader can achieve in a post-Soviet nation. His anti-corruption reforms, which managed to eradicate low-level graft, and massive infrastructure investments were given a positive spin by the media. His troops were offered training and equipment by allies and an honorary place to serve alongside NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. George W. Bush called Georgia a beacon of liberty during his visit to Tbilisi.

The beacon’s darker aspects were not given much attention. The brutal suppression of mass protests in 2007 – which Saakashvili called an attempted coup sponsored by Russia– were barely accorded a second glance by the Western media. The harsh penal system was deemed by foreign sponsors as a necessity, to purge endemic corruption and organized crime, even as rights groups reported torture was common in Georgian prisons. And, of course, Georgian militarism was not considered as something bad.


[snip]

Five days in August

Bringing Abkhazia and South Ossetia back under control was always a declared goal of the Saakashvili government. In August 2008 he made his bid, sending tanks and heavy artillery to shell the South Ossetian capital Tskhinval. Brigadier General Mamuka Kurashvili, who commanded a Georgian peacekeeper mission in South Ossetia –kept there alongside the Russians and the Ossetians– didn’t hide that bringing the breakaway region to heel was the goal. Later, Tbilisi disavowed his statement and claimed the troops were preempting a Russian invasion of Georgia.
**

Full article:
10 years since Georgia attacked South Ossetia and Russia – not the other way around | rt.com

An independent documentary film was also made on the 5 day war. An article was written about it below, with a link to the video itself within said article:

Documentary on the war between Georgia and South Ossetia - Tears of Ossetia | Donbass Insider

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So here's a question for you- how are you so sure that the western mainstream media's version is right?

I am an intelligent man......and the fact that neither Georgia, Crimea or Ukraine invaded Russia.....

Georgia is more like Ukraine. Crimea is more like South Ossetia. I think an even better analogy to South Ossetia are the former Donbass Republics (now officially part of Russia). For an American equivalent, I'd say the former Republic of Texas is a good example. While South Ossetia hasn't yet had a referendum to join Russia, but they've been thinking about having one since 2008. From Wikipedia's entry on South Ossetia:

**
South Ossetia relies heavily on military, political, and financial aid from Russia.[16][17] Since 2008, the South Ossetian government has expressed their intention of joining the Russian Federation; if successful, this would end its proclaimed independence. The prospect of a referendum on this matter has been raised multiple times in domestic politics, but none have taken place.
**

Apparently the only reason they haven't had one yet is because Moscow itself doesn't want them to. Again from Wikipedia's article:

**
In another move towards integration with the Russian Federation, South Ossetian President Leonid Tibilov proposed in December 2015 a name change to South Ossetia–Alania – in analogy with North Ossetia–Alania, a Russian federal subject. Tibilov furthermore suggested holding a referendum on joining the Russian Federation prior to April 2017, which would lead to a united "Ossetia–Alania".[186] In April 2016, Tibilov said he intended to hold the referendum before August of that year.[187][188] However, on 30 May, Tibilov postponed the referendum until after the presidential election due in April 2017.[189] At the name-change referendum, nearly 80 per cent of those who voted endorsed the name-change, while the presidential race was won by Anatoliy Bibilov – against the incumbent, Tibilov, who had been supported by Moscow and who, unlike Bibilov, was ready to heed Moscow's wish for the integration referendum not be held any time soon.[190]

On 30 March 2022, President Anatoly Bibilov announced his intention to begin legal proceedings in the near future to integration with the Russian Federation,[137] although he subsequently lost the presidency in the 2022 South Ossetian presidential election.

**
 
The left hate Russia, it's as simple as that.

They will always be the bad guy to them.

They will openly deny facts.

Not all of those on the left. RFK Jr. continues to inspire hope for me that the left will go back to its more reasonable ways in regards to foreign diplomacy, and what I think is a clear view of what's happened in the U.S. Here's a quote from an interview he did with Tucker Carlson back in April:

**
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: The general theme in my speech was this corrupt merger of state and corporate power, which has which is turning our country into a corporate kleptocracy. Into a system of... cushy socialism for the rich and this kind of brutal, merciless capitalism for the poor.

It keeps us in a state of war. It bails out banks at the same time that, you know, this month, last the United States government told 30 million people it was cutting their welfare check, their food stamp checks by 90%, it took it 15 million people off of Medicare. The same month, it gave $300 million dollars to the Silicon Valley Bank and tapped up the cost of the Ukraine war to $113 billion. We're sending $113 billion to the Ukraine. The entire budget of the EPA is $12 billion. The budget of CDC is $11 billion.

We have 57% of American citizens could not put their hands on a thousand dollars if they have an emergency. A quarter of our citizens are hungry.

So we're cutting welfare and food stamps by 90 percent, and we're paying and we're bailing out the bankers, we're paying for a war that, you know, we can't afford.

And the way that we do this is by printing money. We've printed 10 centuries of money in the last 14 years. And that is what causes inflation, which raises food prices and which is a tax on the poor. You know, we've raised food prices for basic foods like chicken, dairy, and milk by 76% in the last two years. And now we're cutting people's food stamps and bailing out banks the same month. It doesn't make any sense and we need to get rid of this kind of corporate control government.

It comes from, you know, our democracy is devolving into a corporate plutocracy.

**

Source:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr: What We're Being Told About The Ukraine War Is Not True | realclearpolitics.com
 
Not all of those on the left. RFK Jr. continues to inspire hope for me that the left will go back to its more reasonable ways in regards to foreign diplomacy, and what I think is a clear view of what's happened in the U.S. Here's a quote from an interview he did with Tucker Carlson back in April:

**
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: The general theme in my speech was this corrupt merger of state and corporate power, which has which is turning our country into a corporate kleptocracy. Into a system of... cushy socialism for the rich and this kind of brutal, merciless capitalism for the poor.

It keeps us in a state of war. It bails out banks at the same time that, you know, this month, last the United States government told 30 million people it was cutting their welfare check, their food stamp checks by 90%, it took it 15 million people off of Medicare. The same month, it gave $300 million dollars to the Silicon Valley Bank and tapped up the cost of the Ukraine war to $113 billion. We're sending $113 billion to the Ukraine. The entire budget of the EPA is $12 billion. The budget of CDC is $11 billion.

We have 57% of American citizens could not put their hands on a thousand dollars if they have an emergency. A quarter of our citizens are hungry.

So we're cutting welfare and food stamps by 90 percent, and we're paying and we're bailing out the bankers, we're paying for a war that, you know, we can't afford.

And the way that we do this is by printing money. We've printed 10 centuries of money in the last 14 years. And that is what causes inflation, which raises food prices and which is a tax on the poor. You know, we've raised food prices for basic foods like chicken, dairy, and milk by 76% in the last two years. And now we're cutting people's food stamps and bailing out banks the same month. It doesn't make any sense and we need to get rid of this kind of corporate control government.

It comes from, you know, our democracy is devolving into a corporate plutocracy.

**

Source:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr: What We're Being Told About The Ukraine War Is Not True | realclearpolitics.com

He would probably win if the DNC would give him the nomination but they will never do that.

He doesn't play by their rules.
 
That does make sense. Is there anything else in the article that you found to be worth noting?

I did.
Sounds like Russia played their hand perfectly in regards to Georgia. 5 day war to achieve its goal re: Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
They severely overplayed their hand in regard to Ukraine.
Totally stirred up a hornet’s nest, making their former Slavic brothers a vile enemy for at least a generation, an expanded and reunified NATO, a dysfunctional military with a revolving door of generals not to mention generals KIA, and a mini coup where the instigator doesn’t even appear to be punished.
Now stuck in a war of attrition with no end in sight against an enemy that has far more motivation.
 
Come on guno, surely you can do better than that?
Why do you say that? guno is a spiteful, HATER, bigot, and intellectual craven coward. On what are you basing your assessment? I think it is impossible for guno to do any better. HATE and bigotry is all guno has to offer.
 
Its interesting that RT does not mention the CIA even once....my understanding is that they had a lot to do with this.
 
That does make sense. Is there anything else in the article that you found to be worth noting?

I did.
Sounds like Russia played their hand perfectly in regards to Georgia. 5 day war to achieve its goal re: Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

What goal are you referring to? I also think you're skipping over the most important issue: Did Georgia attack South Ossetia first or did Russia attack Georgia first? I went looking for more evidence. Here's what I found in another RT article:

**
Condoleezza Rice, who served as US State Secretary in 2008, admitted that the then-president of Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili, was ‘off the leash’ after Tbilisi attacked South Ossetia, a former Russian defence minister has said.

Any impartial observer would understand that the Georgian operation in South Ossetia was solely “the gamble of Saakashvili,” Sergey Ivanov who served as Defence Minister until 2007 told the Kommersant newspaper.


[snip]

Following the 2008 war, the EU commissioned an independent report which a year later found out that Georgia started the aggression against South Ossetia, but blamed Russia for a disproportionate response to it. “In the Mission’s view, it was Georgia which triggered the war when it attacked Tskhinval with heavy artillery on the night of 7 to 8 August 2008,” Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, who led the probe, said back at that time.
**

Source:
Condi Rice told me Saakashvili was ‘off the leash' – Russia’s ex-defence minister on S.Ossetia war | RT

The link on the report leads to the following article:

Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report | Reuters
 
Come on guno, surely you can do better than that?

Why do you say that? guno is a spiteful, HATER, bigot, and intellectual craven coward. On what are you basing your assessment? I think it is impossible for guno to do any better. HATE and bigotry is all guno has to offer.

I strongly suspect he's not as bad as that. I admit he's a bit borderline with me- I've recently decided to thread ban a few more people who seemed bent on suggesting I was some sort of Russian operative and guno's meme suggests he may be of the same inclination. If he keeps on doing that and nothing else, I may thread ban him too, but I'm still hoping that he may yet offer some constructive comments in this or other threads I start.
 
Its interesting that RT does not mention the CIA even once....my understanding is that they had a lot to do with this.

Perhaps RT isn't as knowledgeable on this issue as you are? Another article I found seems to suggest that Condi Rice felt Georgia was going "off the leash", but I wouldn't be surprised if Condi simply didn't know that the CIA was encouraging Georgia to attack South Ossetia.
 
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