Which President is appealing?

Threedee said:
Grant was an excellent American general, and second only to Sherman, in my book. I also consider Lee to be a highly overrated Confederate general. Actually, I kind of took a liking to Longstreet after watching Gettysberg :)

It is unfortunate that Grant was such a failure as a president, though. Thanks for the correction about the circumstances of his death.
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He was crap for a General. The only reason that the North won that war was sheer numbers. In almost every battle that Grant fought Lee there was a 5 to 1 ratio of death falling against the north. Grant would just continue to throw bodies into the shredder, it had nothing to do with ability.

He was the only General that Lincoln hired that actually would attack Lee though, so he continued to be the General.
 
Damocles said:
He was crap for a General. The only reason that the North won that war was sheer numbers. In almost every battle that Grant fought Lee there was a 5 to 1 ratio of death falling against the north. Grant would just continue to throw bodies into the shredder, it had nothing to do with ability.

He was the only General that Lincoln hired that actually would attack Lee though, so he continued to be the General.
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concise and accurate. in nearly every tactical engagement between them, Lee won. Lee = a modern Pyrrhus.
 
Threedee said:
Not between Lee and Grant. Lee was able to beat morons such as McClellan (worst gen. in US history, hands down), but he got beat down by Grant.
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Again, he got overwhelmed by sheer numbers, he never was beat down. Grant was outmatched in every way, except numbers, and Grant was willing to spend the lives of soldiers and accept losses no modern general would find acceptable. In one battle the South killed 9 men to every 1 lost on their side and kept the war going through another winter because Grant was inept and unable to comprehend battle concepts.
 
Damocles said:
Again, he got overwhelmed by sheer numbers, he never was beat down. Grant was outmatched in every way, except numbers, and Grant was willing to spend the lives of soldiers and accept losses no modern general would find acceptable. In one battle the South killed 9 men to every 1 lost on their side and kept the war going through another winter because Grant was inept and unable to comprehend battle concepts.
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Are you referring to battles such as Chancellorsville, in which the commanding generals were the likes of Hooker, Meade and Burnside?

Remember, Grant started off in the Western Theater, where he did not encounter Lee, and where he built up his reputation as a winner.
 
Threedee said:
Are you referring to battles such as Chancellorsville, in which the commanding generals were the likes of Hooker, Meade and Burnside?

Remember, Grant started off in the Western Theater, where he did not encounter Lee, and where he built up his reputation as a winner.
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No, I am talking simply about the battles between Grant and Lee. In almost every way Grant got his tuckus handed back to him, if he wasn't willing to spend lives in such a poor ratio the north would have needed a better General. And I know that Grant was in the Western theater, but he wasn't a General then either...

Please read the book. "Grant and Lee", you'll like it and you'll learn something.
 
You should consider, however (and this includes the other generals besides Grant), that with the diminuative size of the South's population, that the numbers that Lee, Johnston, et. al. spent was really no more exhaustive or mind-blowing by comparison.

I believe 1/3 of the entire CSA adult white male population was exterminated during the Civil War?
 
Threedee said:
Not between Lee and Grant. Lee was able to beat morons such as McClellan (worst gen. in US history, hands down), but he got beat down by Grant.
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What? Are you on crack? You're a history major right? You're supposed to be above this kind of idiocy.

Damo's characterization is much more accurate than yours. Lincoln loved Grant because, unlike McClellan, Grant was perfectly willing to continue to throw away lives and grind down the Confederate armies through attrition.

McClellan, while a great organizer and trainer of armies, lacked the tenacity necessary to pursue a war against the more tactically skilled officer corps of the Confederacy. A simple look at the 1860 graduating class of West Point will show anyone interested that the South took the lion's share of the trained officers. The North won for many reasons, but chief among them was Grant's willingness to utilize their numerical superiority over the more skilled Southern armies.
 
Threedee said:
You should consider, however (and this includes the other generals besides Grant), that with the diminuative size of the South's population, that the numbers that Lee, Johnston, et. al. spent was really no more exhaustive or mind-blowing by comparison.

I believe 1/3 of the entire CSA adult white male population was exterminated during the Civil War?
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About 20% of the population was lost. However, per capita, Lee kicked Grant's butt, he just didn't have enough men. Unlike Grant he didn't have an almost inexhaustible supply of men to throw away. Grant stank as a General.

The problem that Lincoln faced was that preceding Grant nobody would attack Lee. One guy created the largest marching force to ever exist at that time and then walked around a bit never engaging Lee's forces. They moved about a mile a day and never got closer than 18 miles to Lee.... Others never even left the capital for fear that Lee would run around them and take it. Grant turned them towards Lee at every turn. The one thing that Grant did that was smart was not taking Raleigh and going after Lee's forces.
 
Your guys' arguments that no one before Grant was accepted because of temerity is weak. Mead, Burnside, and Hooker all spent troops like there was no tomorrow. Hooker has been particularly demonized for his actions at Chancellorsville. It was only McClellan who would pussy out every time without fail, such as at the Peninsula Campaign which arguably could have ended the war during the first year of fighting. Grant was picked, because unlike the other generals I mentioned, he actually won battles.
 
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