uscitizen
Villified User
Yep and after well pull out they will start / continue killing the Kurds and other groups again as well ?
White House admits Iraq fuels extremism
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Yep and after well pull out they will start / continue killing the Kurds and other groups again as well ?
uscitizen
Villified User
Oh I expect it will be a minimum of 5 years. They have had how many trained troops for how long ? And they still wont fight. It takes the USA how long to train a soldier, think about it. It is far more than training issues.
Well if the Brits had NOT started this whole mess with giving Saddam types the control of the oil without sharing it with the different Iraqi factions of religious tribes like the Shiites or the Kurds...then there wouldn't be the mess that we have now....
They need to split up the Iraqi oil FAIRLY and EVENLY among the Sunni, Shiite and Kurds and then let them all run their own regions....
Make them a democratic REPUBLIC, not a pure DEMOCRACY ....which in my opinion would not work.
Damo, I realize that you want to send more troops in there, enough to secure the country and bring stability in a very QUICK manner.....then leave.
How many troops do you think this will take and how quickly do you think they could accomplish this admirable goal?
Do you think we are positioned militarily to accomplish increasing the troops dramatically enough to make a DIFFERENCE?
Do you think that this administration WOULD EVER DO what you suggest and if the answer is yes, my question is WHEN? Are they letting the iraqis get killed in the numbers EXCEEDING 100 people a day TILL AFTER THE ELECTION?
Do they have that kind of DISREGARD for Human lives?
And if your answer is no, the administration will NOT EXPEDITE this kind of plan for Iraq,
THEN what will YOU support, staying the course or redeploying in to the local region?
I need some in depth thinkg and opinion here, not just a "simple response" that may never ever come to fruition....
Also, I think that we ALL need to think this whole mess through, TO THE END.....have some foresight, ya know....
this mess is complicated, to say the least imo.
care
They need to split up the Iraqi oil FAIRLY and EVENLY among the Sunni, Shiite and Kurds and then let them all run their own regions....
Make them a democratic REPUBLIC, not a pure DEMOCRACY ....which in my opinion would not work.
Damo, I realize that you want to send more troops in there, enough to secure the country and bring stability in a very QUICK manner.....then leave.
How many troops do you think this will take and how quickly do you think they could accomplish this admirable goal?
Do you think we are positioned militarily to accomplish increasing the troops dramatically enough to make a DIFFERENCE?
Do you think that this administration WOULD EVER DO what you suggest and if the answer is yes, my question is WHEN? Are they letting the iraqis get killed in the numbers EXCEEDING 100 people a day TILL AFTER THE ELECTION?
Do they have that kind of DISREGARD for Human lives?
And if your answer is no, the administration will NOT EXPEDITE this kind of plan for Iraq,
THEN what will YOU support, staying the course or redeploying in to the local region?
I need some in depth thinkg and opinion here, not just a "simple response" that may never ever come to fruition....
Also, I think that we ALL need to think this whole mess through, TO THE END.....have some foresight, ya know....
this mess is complicated, to say the least imo.
care
maineman
Banned
the generals, especially good ones, will make their case to the civilian command authority behind closed doors, and then, when Bush and Rummy and Shooter decide what THEY want to do, the generals will march out of the room and announce the plan and swear to God it was their idea from the git go.
That comes from first year military leadership training 101.
That comes from first year military leadership training 101.
Because many of them don't want to been seen as collaborators with an american occupation. It tends to result in the beheadings of their family.
We need to pull back and let these iraqis develope some of their own pride in their country and institutions. Until then, they will be seen as collaborators.
Gaffer
Sanctimonious Prick
A small example of persieved victory would be found in the hezbollah Israeli conflict. In which the mighty un stepped in with a cease fire and hez immediately declared a victory of Israel. They went about recruiting and getting even more lebanese to join and support them. They forgot to honor their part of the deal, freeing the israeli soldiers and stopping the rearmament.
Now they have more support and more arms and after the un reduces its forces in the area they will strike again.
The same perception would happen if we pulled out of iraq. It would just embolden the islamists. Putting a un force in iraq qould be a joke. Does anyone think the un would actually put real forces in there. They pulled out and ran as soon as there was an attack near their first base they tried to set up in 2003.
I think Damo's idea is pretty good myself. Once we turn it over to them they can go on and fight it out. iraqi's will fight iraqi's they are doing it right now.
we can keep one base in the Kurd area and let the rest of it go to hell if it wants too. we will eventually need an invasion point for gong into iran.
Now they have more support and more arms and after the un reduces its forces in the area they will strike again.
The same perception would happen if we pulled out of iraq. It would just embolden the islamists. Putting a un force in iraq qould be a joke. Does anyone think the un would actually put real forces in there. They pulled out and ran as soon as there was an attack near their first base they tried to set up in 2003.
I think Damo's idea is pretty good myself. Once we turn it over to them they can go on and fight it out. iraqi's will fight iraqi's they are doing it right now.
we can keep one base in the Kurd area and let the rest of it go to hell if it wants too. we will eventually need an invasion point for gong into iran.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Except that they still can't properly define what it would mean to "win" in Iraq, nor have they presented any plausible plan for getting to that ill-defined goal. They have no suggestion better than "not giving up" which is only a good idea when you're relatively certain that there's some hope of a desirable outcome.
Time to pack it in and go home.
A small example of persieved victory would be found in the hezbollah Israeli conflict. In which the mighty un stepped in with a cease fire and hez immediately declared a victory of Israel. They went about recruiting and getting even more lebanese to join and support them. They forgot to honor their part of the deal, freeing the israeli soldiers and stopping the rearmament.
Now they have more support and more arms and after the un reduces its forces in the area they will strike again.
Thanks for making the argument that I made from the beginning.
That Israel should have approached this with small covert ops, surgical strikes, and covert assasination attempts of hezbollah leaders. Rather than leveling the whole country of Lebanon, and uniting lebanese christians and sunnis, behind the shia hezbollah.
Now they have more support and more arms and after the un reduces its forces in the area they will strike again.
Thanks for making the argument that I made from the beginning.
That Israel should have approached this with small covert ops, surgical strikes, and covert assasination attempts of hezbollah leaders. Rather than leveling the whole country of Lebanon, and uniting lebanese christians and sunnis, behind the shia hezbollah.
We expanded on that later in the thread.
Damo, please answer my questions further than I would let the amount of military men up to the generals...
what about the rest of my questions and points?
why are you avoiding them?
please answer them... getting down to solutions will end the divisiveness but as long as you do not address the real issues in this case we will continue to be divisive and disagree... IS THAT wahat you want?
if you have answered them somewhere and I have missed your answers then could you please give me the "post numbers" for your answers so I can get to the bottom of what it is that you are prescribing THAT IS FEASIBLE....and with some "thought" to the entire situation in the middle east...?
I'm not avoiding. I realy don't have time right now. We had one of our buildings catch fire and we have to pick up the work for them.
Hadn't Israel been doing these sorts of "covert operations" (an obvious misnomer since an operation can't be "covert" if the Lebanese know all about it) for years already. I think it was this behavior that spawned Hizbollah in the first place wasn't it? What Israel needed to do but couldn't because of their relationship with America and America's own misguided and wrong-headed plans and designs for the region was forget violent action and reaction and dialogue for the best deal that would result in the return of the troops. If it called for a prisoner trade, do it, and realize that continued covert activities including kidnappings, murders, terrorist attacks and bombings were not the way to establish or maintain Isreal's long term security.